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Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

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Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#461

Post by szvsw »

shrubble wrote: post #435
constantcrying wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say this will include hundreds of thousands of jobs. I have little doubt that dedicated power generation and storage is included in their plans. Also I have no doubt that the timing is deliberate and that this is not happening without government endorsement. If I had to guess the US military also is involved in this and sees this initiative as important for national security.

Just as there is an AWS for the public, with something similar but only for Federal use, so it could be possible that there is AI cloud services available to the public and then a separate cloud service for Federal use. I am sure that military intelligence agencies etc. would like to buy such a service.

AWS GovCloud already exists FYI (as you hinted) and it is absolutely used by the DoD extensively already.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#462

Post by mullingitover »

I'm in the middle of "Devil Take the Hindmost: A History of Financial Speculation" and hoo boy, there are strong deja vu vibes here.

Just waiting for the current regime to decide that we should go all-in on some big AI venture and bet the whole Social Security pot on it.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#463

Post by jonisgold »

markus_zhang wrote: post #411
heydenberk wrote: post #29

~$125B per year would be 2-3% of all domestic investment. It's similar in scale to the GDP of a small middle income country. If the electric grid — particularly the interconnection queue — is already the bottleneck to data center deployment, is something on this scale even close to possible? If it's a rationalized policy framework (big if!), I would guess there's some major permitting reform announcement coming soon.

Maybe they will invest in nuclear reactors. Data center, AI and nuclear power stations. Three advanced technologies, that's pretty good.

I think this is right- data centers powered by fission reactors. Something like Oklo (https://oklo.com) makes sense.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#464

Post by beezle »

constantcrying wrote: post #91
heydenberk wrote: post #29

~$125B per year would be 2-3% of all domestic investment. It's similar in scale to the GDP of a small middle income country. If the electric grid — particularly the interconnection queue — is already the bottleneck to data center deployment, is something on this scale even close to possible? If it's a rationalized policy framework (big if!), I would guess there's some major permitting reform announcement coming soon.

They say this will include hundreds of thousands of jobs. I have little doubt that dedicated power generation and storage is included in their plans. Also I have no doubt that the timing is deliberate and that this is not happening without government endorsement. If I had to guess the US military also is involved in this and sees this initiative as important for national security.

hundreds of thousands of jobs? I'll wait for the postmortem on that prediction. Sounds a lot like Foxconn in Wisconsin but with more players.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#465

Post by alganet »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #264
alganet wrote: post #207

It seems early for this sort of move. This is also a huge spin on the whole thing that could throw a lot of people off. Is there any planned future partnerships? Stargate implies something about movies and astronomy. Movies in particular have a lot of military influence, but not always. So, what's the play? Help mankind or go after mankind? Also, can I opt-out right now?

Why is it early from your perspective? If one is expecting to have an AGI breakthrough in the next few years, this is exactly the prepositioning move one would make to be able to maximally capitalize on that breakthrough.

From my perspective humanity has all breakthroughs in intelligence it needs.

The breaking of The Enigma gave humans machines that can spread knowledge to more humans. It already happened a long time ago, and all of it was cause for much trouble, but we endured the hardest part (to know when to stop), and humans live in a good world now. Full of problems, but way better than it was before.

I think the web is enough. LLMs are good enough.

This move to try to draw water from stone (artificial intelligence in sillicon chips) seems to be overkill. How can we be sure it's not a siphon that will make us dumber? Before you just dismiss me or counter my arguments, consider what is happening everywhere.

Maybe I'm wrong, or not seeing something. You know, like I believed in aliens for a long time. This move to artificial intelligence causes shock and awe in a similar way. However, while I do believe aliens do not exist, I am not sure if artificial intelligence is a real strawman. It could be the case that is not made of straw, and if it is more than that, we might have a problem.

I am specially concerned because unlike other polemic topics, this one could lead to something not human that fully understands those previous polemic topics. Humans through their generations forget and mythologize those fantasies. We don't know what non-humans could do with that information.

I am thinking about those issues for a long time. Almost a decade, even before LLMs running on silicon existed. If it wanted, non-human artificial intelligence could wipe the floor with humans just by playing to their favorite myths. Humans do it in a small scale. If machines learn it, we're in for an unknown hostile reality.

It could, for example, perceive time different from us (also a play on myths), and do all sorts of tricks with our minds.

LLMs and the current generation of artificial intelligence are boolean first, it's what they run. Only true or false bits and gates. Humans can understand the meaning of trulse though, we are very non boolean.

So, yeah, I am worried about booleaning people on a massive scale.

Yep, long wall of text. Sorry about that.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#466

Post by mrbungie »

Havoc wrote: post #399
resters wrote: post #380

Why is Larry Ellison giving a speech about the power of AI to cure disease? How is Oracle relevant at all to any of AI progress in the past few years?

Oracle actually has a ton of gpus Not sure how they knew to buy them or why but they have them. Mostly seem to be lending them out. Think mostly OpenAI. Or was it MS. One of the big dogs

Still, the worst positioned cloud provider to tackle this job. Both for the project and for eventual users of whatever eldritch abomination that cames out of this.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#467

Post by stevenwoo »

dwnw wrote: post #199
thecrumb wrote: post #109

"create hundreds of thousands of American jobs"... Given the current educational system in the US, this should be fun to watch. Oh yeah, Musk and his H-1B Visa thing. Now it's making sense.

How many jobs will it net if "successful" and the AI eliminates jobs?

This is what the 2024 Nobel prize winners in economics call "creative destruction" to repeat from their book Why Nations Fail. They really did not have a lot of sympathy for those they lumped in with Luddites who were collateral damage to progress.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#470

Post by HotHotLava »

skepticATX wrote: post #129

Why are corporations announcing business deals from the White House? There doesn’t seem to be any public ownership/benefit here, aside from potential job creation. Which could be significant. But the American public doesn’t seem to gain anything from this new company.

If the announced spending target is true, this will be a strategic project for the US exceeding Biden's stimulus acts in scale. I think it would be pretty normal in any country to have highest-level involvement for projects like this. For example, Tesla has a much smaller revenue than this and Chancellor Olaf Scholz was still present when they opened their Gigafactory near Berlin.
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