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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#461

Post by wl »

boringg wrote: post #223
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

The conflicts with the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Hittites came down to geopolitical factors that don't exist anymore. Mostly, the Levant separated the empires of Mesopotamia and Anatolia from Egypt. The numerous battles that happened at Meggido occurred because that was a chokepoint of the Way of Horus, the principal land trade route from Egypt specifically and Africa generally to the rest of the world. Besides trade, the Levant had tended to serve as a buffer zone between pharaonic Egypt, which preferred hegemony over outright empire, and other empires who always seemed to want to expand towards Egypt. The Assyrian military campaigns in particular are a reaction to the 25th dynasty in Egypt convincing rulers in the Levant to ally themselves more closely with them at the expense of the Assyrians.

The current conflict is a different beast. The fall of the Ottoman Empire and the careless meddling of western powers in the aftermath. The Jewish diaspora, Zionism, and the Holocaust. The Sunni-Shia conflict.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#462

Post by Tainnor »

verdverm wrote: post #434
robertwt7 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how is this different to all wars? back then when the Nazis started the war and we had to declare war against them. Or when we nuked 2 cities of Japan, were we also afraid that we will create multiple generations of anger and hate? how is this different? I'm not comparing Israel or Palestine to Nazi, it's just a bitter fact that war always create anger and hate. Something had to be done though?

After WW2, (west) Germany was given massive support. We helped to rebuild the country. Same for Japan. Will we (and/or Israel) do the same for Gaza? What about Lebanon and Syria? We certainly failed at this in Iraq and Afghanistan, did we learn any lessons? Will the incoming US Administration fumble this opportunity? As Stephen Kotkin likes to say "You can win the war and lose the peace. You can also lose the war and…

If you take the analogy further, Germany also completely surrendered after WWII and came up with a new, democratic government. In the meantime, 12-16 millions of Germans were driven out of their homes in East Prussia never to return. It wasn't until 1990 that the (now reunited) Germany finally renounced all claims to their lost territory.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#463

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

BurningFrog wrote: post #257
Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

> What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? The whole Iranian anti Israel coalition has been badly beaten! Hezbollah barely exists anymore. The Assad regime is toppled. Iran itself has learned that Israel can attack them at will. The Houthis are still active, but too far away to do real damage. Hamas itself still exists, but in a deeply degraded form. Their leaders are dead. Their arm…

Never again - I wouldn't hold my breath. Left alone, Gazans will dig new tunnels, and everything will repeat.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#464

Post by dismalaf »

tmnvix wrote: post #457
dismalaf wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of buzzwords but no content. The background behind the current conflict goes something like this: Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived in Palestine during the Ottoman era. Jews discovered Europe was pretty hostile, Zionism was born. Many move to Palestine, buy land and settle down. The Ottomans lose WWI, lose Palestine to the British. The British Empire started fracturing, they realised they couldn't…

> The Jews abide by the plan, declare Israel when the British mandate ends. There is a lot to say about this part, but just one point: the plan included the establishment of a Palestinian state which Israel has blocked since its inception. So no, they did not abide by the plan. The plan has never been implemented.

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#465

Post by Tainnor »

onecommentman wrote: post #361

A meta level comment for dang, I’m upvoting every comment that is being gang-downvoted…independent of the position. This topic, with roots going back millennia, deserves to have all opinions captured and presented, if nothing more than as a snapshot/wave collapse of where the opposing sides sat in 2025. Noting that, ceasefires are wonderful things.

It's not just gang-downvoting, I've seen perfectly reasonable and civil comments being flagged for no apparent reason.

I remain convinced that HN is simply not the place to have a reasoned discussion about this conflict, and probably nowhere on the internet is.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#467

Post by tptacek »

mjfl wrote: post #453
tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

Hamas accepted the deal back in May, but then Netanyahu refused to sign the deal, and revised it into a form that was no longer acceptable.

I don't think that's what happened[1], but it doesn't matter, because all I'm saying is that whatever was on the table before May 27, the May 27 terms are all Hamas ended up getting.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42721325

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#468

Post by ajmurmann »

bbqfog wrote: post #288
Sabinus wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IDF or Likud The IDF and Likud does not have a policy of attacking civilians to achieve political or war goals. They likely have some deranged and radicalized commanders who do this anyway, but it's not the organizational policy.

The IDF and Likud literally just killed orders of magnitude more civilians than Hamas in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Yemen.

Is this difference because Hamas values human lives more or because they lack strength to do more harm?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#469

Post by selcuka »

kevingadd wrote: post #414
gunian wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The playbook does seems more and more similar everyday but I'm curious why the other side hasn't figured out how to counter it

At times it seems as if the other side hasn't figured out how to do much of anything, or alternately, they've forgotten as they steadily get older and older without passing the reins of power off to younger generations.

At times it seems as if there aren't multiple sides.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#470

Post by ajmurmann »

hirvi74 wrote: post #291
zazazache wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is different from Hamas right to exist compared to the IDF or Likud? Hamas certainly has less blood on their hands!

I mean, realistically speaking, the IDF is a powerful force, while Hamas is not. Israel has the ability to completely take over Gaza, but Gaza does not have the ability to take over Israel. So, as macabre as it may be, Hamas' right to exist, technically speaking, is controlled by Israel. (All of this assuming no outside intervention for 3rd-party nations or groups of nations, of course.)

And let's not forget that the IDF previously removed Jewish inhabitants from Gaza to appease Hamas. Totally unimaginable the other way around.
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