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Who killed the rave?

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461–470 of 854 posts

Re: Who killed the rave?

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking how often the answer to "How come X changed?" is either the creation of the internet or the cost of real estate. Surprisingly often, it's both.

It's interesting how the creation of the internet still hasn't caused real estate prices to plummet. Even two years of covid couldn't do it.

IMO, the internet and residential real estate are complements, not substitutes. The less people leave their homes, the more they're inclined to pay for bigger, nicer ones.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#462
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay this is an interesting topic but I think you are conflating several things. The decline in sexual experience is occurring in California metros too. Its really interesting how the behaviors have shifted and surprising to me. But people are bonding, social, far less exclusionary, inclusive to things they’ve never heard of - unless you’re the wrong star sign, ironically, or political party. I date 20-somethings, it…

> unless you’re the wrong star sign, ironically, or political party. These things are very different and do not belong in the same list, and I've noticed that when people do put them together, they're often trying to make the point that political party is just another arbitrary inherent attribute like race, rather than a serious reflection of someone's character. Can you explain why you think they belong together?

those are the notable examples of how people are exclusionary, as it says. That is the common attribute. It wasn’t as deep as you made it, this time.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#463
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assert this without evidence, but I would highly suspect club attendance numbers and rave attendance numbers to be strongly correlated.

That doesn't make sense to me. Anecdotally, most people I know who love actual raves generally didn't go to clubs, for one. But also more broadly, I've heard from multiple local venues that one big change is that EDM crowds don't drink as much. This means venues make A LOT less money, and that means fewer venues. If I had to guess, another factor is that younger crowds don't have the buying power older generations ha…

> Anecdotally, most people I know who love actual raves generally didn't go to clubs, for one.

In a similar vein, most people I know who love watching sports do not play the sport they enjoy watching. However, like the parent, I suspect that the numbers watching a sport strongly correlates with the numbers playing the sport. There need not be overlap between the watchers and the players for the correlation to stand. Something being in the zeitgeist lifts all related boats, it seems. Raves and clubs are different expressions of what is essentially the same fashion. It seems unlikely that only one expression would die off where the general fashion trend remains intact.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#464

I find it really hard to believe this and am questioning the data. I raved back in the early 2000s and I still rave now and the popularity is absolutely booming in a way I've never seen before and in more parts of the world. 15 years ago there was zero electronic music events in Dubai, now there are huge electronic music festivals there and it's clear a ton of people at those events are taking "something" that isn't…

I feel like they're conflating "rave" with "clubbing." Friday, Saturday club attendance has been dropping across the world, and many electronic music focused club venues have shut down (at least in Australia and the UK). My word association of "rave" is "festival" though. Festivals feel like they're still booming, or at least not in dramatic decline. From a small personal sampling: Coachella, Portola, Outside Lands,…

> My word association of "rave" is "festival" though.

hehe, my definition of a rave is a temporary venue where at least 2 people have asked if you need help finding Molly.

There is a bisect of "festival" goers and "ravers", but many ravers are priced out of festivals, but may attend raves weekly or monthly.

Both of these imho, are different than your traditional licensed club that primarily serves alcohol and is 21+ exclusive.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#465
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you’re the wrong star sign, ironically, or political party. These things are very different and do not belong in the same list, and I've noticed that when people do put them together, they're often trying to make the point that political party is just another arbitrary inherent attribute like race, rather than a serious reflection of someone's character. Can you explain why you think they belong together?

Young people don't have any political power at all, so "political party" doesn't say very much about them as a person.

Tell that to their former friend the same age, who happened to pick the other party.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay this is an interesting topic but I think you are conflating several things. The decline in sexual experience is occurring in California metros too. Its really interesting how the behaviors have shifted and surprising to me. But people are bonding, social, far less exclusionary, inclusive to things they’ve never heard of - unless you’re the wrong star sign, ironically, or political party. I date 20-somethings, it…

You say people are bonding in a less exclusionary manner, but that doesnt mean they aren't bonding less as well. The chronic anxiety you mention, as well as the pervasive loneliness and depression I observe, seems to indicate a lack of healthy and supportive social bonds.

Good point. The subset of 20-something year old women I date are social and have lots of anxieties, but it doesn’t really inhibit their ability to have a support system.

I can see that there are plenty of other people who would have more difficult doing this by nature of not attracting positive attention and interest by default.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#467
post #457
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my mom was teen, she says the way they had the most fun was to go to dancing parties in people's houses and sometimes in some special venue for younger people. That was in the 60's. As I grew up in the 80's we had nothing like that, we just went to night clubs or some street full of bars/restaurants. Dancing was mostly a thing you did by yourself, like in most night clubs still these days, not like she describes…

Imho, the internet / mobile apps have drastically atrophied younger generations' face-to-face social interaction skills. And specifically their appetite for the risk/discomfort that goes along with living in realtime physical moments with other people. Human beings are awkward as hell, but that's what laughter and tolerance are the bridges for.

Every instinct I have agrees with you.

Yet I can't help but wonder if people also said the same about the telephone (which enabled socialization without colocation) and television (Which enabled entertainment as a passive indirect consumption)

I realize of course that the internet, and mobile (and eventually VR/AR) is Yet Another Step Further.

But...like every step does it not also come with benefits for some at the expense of others?

For example, I simply can't believe that true extraverts are simply going to be resigned to giving up all these physical moments - they will continue to seek out and create and participate in-person spaces.

To me, the problem is less about the way that we do or do not socialize, and rather the monumentally addictive nature of online and app spaces, and the fact that the companies in charge of them have no other motivation at his point it seems than to just push it all to the limit.

Our feeble caveman brains cannot handle the dopamine roulette that is the TikTok/Instagram/Twitter feed. We have no immunity to it, so the only solution is artificial restrictions like screentime. Then again, we've had to reckon with that with plentiful calories too as we trended towards universal obesity and have STARTED to turn it around (but not succeeded yet). And that took decades.

Every generation struggled with something. Our grandparents were choked by smog. Our parents had polluted waterways and lead in everything. We are engulfed in microplastics and addictive technology. Our children will wreckon with the effects of climate change.

Through all this, humanity continues to grow, invent new technology, and raise both the floor for existence and the ceiling for prosperity.

The worst thing we can do now is to give up on the next generation or on the future of humanity. Optimism is our obligation and responsibility.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And more people are satisfied with the vibes at the better facilities

Have you ever been to a rave? I've never seen a fight break out at a rave, but I've seen plenty in clubs. The levels of self-absorbed, inconsiderate, and assholish behavior are usually excruciatingly high at clubs, and tolerably low at raves.

I've never seen a fight at a club. At this one big (80k) festival in northeast lake region Germany neither. In my experience, fighting and aggression are caused mainly by, in decreasing order of importance, alcohol, cocaine, crammed+overfilled spaces. Then a very long gap before bullies and such appear on the list.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#470
post #457
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my mom was teen, she says the way they had the most fun was to go to dancing parties in people's houses and sometimes in some special venue for younger people. That was in the 60's. As I grew up in the 80's we had nothing like that, we just went to night clubs or some street full of bars/restaurants. Dancing was mostly a thing you did by yourself, like in most night clubs still these days, not like she describes…

Imho, the internet / mobile apps have drastically atrophied younger generations' face-to-face social interaction skills. And specifically their appetite for the risk/discomfort that goes along with living in realtime physical moments with other people. Human beings are awkward as hell, but that's what laughter and tolerance are the bridges for.

And alcohol.
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