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Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

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Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#461

Post by clayhacks »

rors wrote: post #334
aylmao wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alain Bertaud, the urbanist, recently said, “the big contribution of cities is randomness.” And he continues: “You don't know what to expect. You don't know who you will meet. And, it's precisely because you meet people who are different from you, who have different ideas. Sometime even it could be obnoxious people. I think obnoxious people — I mean, what I consider obnoxious — are necessary in order to stimulate.”…

I wonder if the homogeneity has come from gentrification and high property prices. NYC might have been a crime-ridden dump in the 60s, but it was cheap enough that Andy Warhol could afford to rent a massive studio. And a modern day Leonard Cohen wouldn't be welcome in the Chelsea Hotel. Now you have to be a lawyer or work in finance to hope to even get a modest sized apartment in NYC.

That feels like a big factor. I see far more engineers and techies in SF than artists and poets. Not sure how many artists could survive in the city when not only rent is so expensive, but almost all other goods are also more expensive (largely because the stores and their employees pay those high rents too).

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#462

Post by [deleted] »

whiskiss wrote: post #458
speed_spread wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once one admits that God's existence is undecidable, s/he can either live in fear of both possibilities or live free of both possibilities. Having no use for unfounded fear, I personally much prefer the latter option. God, if it exists, is irrelevant. Any spiritual activity I perform is for my own benefit and for the good of those around me, never for the consideration of a possible being that couldn't be bothered to…

It could be argued by the religious that in some cases they did manifest(according to their beliefs), and there's actually an excess of copies of the rules if considering the amounts of the Quran or Bible printed.

[deleted]

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#463

Post by rayiner »

simmanian wrote: post #459
rayiner wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don’t shout anything at me, racial or otherwise. Certainly not “1 in 20” strangers on the street. So I find OP’s story difficult to believe and likely lacking context. > Park next to someone? They yell, "This ain't China, don't park so close." Walk home from school? Students yell ching chong at me. Shit is messed. Is this “racism” or bad manners/people trying to get a rise out of you? Did that guy yell at you…

again, super happy for you. but i feel some people try to go out of their way to convince themselves that racism is not at play even when it clearly is, because it paints a picture where they are somehow "better" than those who experience hatred. the guy who yelled at me to park farther away, when I called him out on what he said, he walked up to me in an imposing manner and said, "so yeah, I can be a little racist,…

I assume such events are randomly distributed. So I’m talking about your reaction, not the conduct itself.

What I find odd is the impact of this negative interaction in a parking lot. Do you think the guy wouldn’t have yelled at you had you been white? If not, what’s the real difference between “this isn’t China” and “are you blind?”

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#464

Post by rayiner »

dyauspitr wrote: post #457
rayiner wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is she one of those Asians who thinks it’s “racist” when people ask questions that merely acknowledge that Asians are highly likely to be immigrants or children of immigrants? Like: “where are you really from?” I find it impossible to believe that people are literally “yelling slurs” to anyone in street unprovoked. I look like a 9/11 hijacker and nobody has ever done that to me even walking around bumblefuck south Ge…

Since you’re ethnically Bangladeshi, have you never had someone in the US be racist to you?

I have! Indians can tell I’m Bangladeshi and exclude me in just us desis” groups. And once I was riding in an elevator with an Arab family and they said something in Arabic about the “Bangladeshi” that I assume wasn’t very nice.

The only time a white American ever said anything negative to me was a middle school bully, and I called him a pig-nosed pink pig in response. Both of us were just looking to get a rise out of the other, so in my estimation that’s not “racism.”

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#465

Post by 0_____0 »

lukan wrote: post #188
0_____0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you spent time around intentional communities? It's possible you're taking a looser meaning of the phrase than I am, but Intentional Communities have no shortage of toxicity and drama, especially since by their nature these communities filter for people for whom the 'default world' didn't work. That's not to say the concept is bad, but it's very very easy for even a good group to rapidly devolve, the clearer hea…

"Have you spent time around intentional communities?" Yes and I know what you are talking about, but I was indeed using it more in a loose meaning, like friends moving intentionally close together and living in houses next to each other and sharing common ressources like a sauna and take turns in babysitting. Not necessarily sharing one kitchen and bathroom together. But for some this also works, for me only with cer…

I visited a friend who, along with a dozen of their friends, bought a series of new build townhomes in a suburb of a major city. It was very, very cool.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#466

Post by simmanian »

rayiner wrote: post #463
simmanian wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

again, super happy for you. but i feel some people try to go out of their way to convince themselves that racism is not at play even when it clearly is, because it paints a picture where they are somehow "better" than those who experience hatred. the guy who yelled at me to park farther away, when I called him out on what he said, he walked up to me in an imposing manner and said, "so yeah, I can be a little racist,…

I assume such events are randomly distributed. So I’m talking about your reaction, not the conduct itself. What I find odd is the impact of this negative interaction in a parking lot. Do you think the guy wouldn’t have yelled at you had you been white? If not, what’s the real difference between “this isn’t China” and “are you blind?”

>I assume such events are randomly distributed.

your point is racism towards asians does not exist, because these random assholes are being assholes toward random targets and they would basically act the same way to other white people. i disagree. i believe what the grandparent comment described about their partner's experience in rural town america is more or less true. you are free to think they are a liar or an outlier. but when people you have never interacted with call you a chinese ching chong on the street when you're just walking home, you have to admit there is some racial element to their abuse. would they have yelled anything at me if i were just another white dude in their predominantly white neighborhood? somehow i highly doubt that.

no, i don't think these people go about their lives consciously trying to be especially mean to asian people. most of them have probably just internalized certain biases against asians. for the sake of convenience, i and many others have decided to categorize such patterns of behavior as racism.

again, you are free to believe that racism is not real. if you are squarely within that camp, i doubt anything i say will change your mind.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#467

Post by antifa »

bluGill wrote: post #328
goodpoint wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rituals and doctrines around proving there is no God Please provide evidence to substantiate this claim.

Their rituals involve quotes of Noam Chomsky or Richard Dawkins anytime region comes up. Noam Chomsky and/or Richard Dawkins wrote their doctrines which they accept without question. Maybe that isn't you, but it exists.

> but it exists

A religion without gods can exist, and trying to prove God does not exist can be a hobby, but Atheism does not mean either of those concepts.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#468

Post by derefr »

rayiner wrote: post #453
simmanian wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you asking this given what the parent comment described? Are you accusing them of lying or blowing things out of proportion? I'm truly, honestly happy that you have not experienced anything like what the parent comment described. But I grew up in west coast America and I still experienced a lot of casual racism. Park next to someone? They yell, "This ain't China, don't park so close." Walk home from school? S…

People don’t shout anything at me, racial or otherwise. Certainly not “1 in 20” strangers on the street. So I find OP’s story difficult to believe and likely lacking context. > Park next to someone? They yell, "This ain't China, don't park so close." Walk home from school? Students yell ching chong at me. Shit is messed. Is this “racism” or bad manners/people trying to get a rise out of you? Did that guy yell at you…

Re: your experiences — racists (and bigots in general) are a lot more likely to voice the bigoted things they're thinking, when the target of their vitriol looks like someone who wouldn't fight back against what they're saying. So: women (when the speaker is male and physically larger); old people; people with disabilities; etc. It's the same victim-selection logic that criminals use.

If you're the sort of person who would never expect to get randomly fucked with on the street, then you shouldn't expect to be the target of voiced bigotry, either.

> Did that guy yell at you because you were Asian

Yes, 100% it was because she was Asian.

The small town I grew up in is effectively 100% white (just by coincidence of history); but exists near some major global cities (like the one I live in now) that have a good mix of ethnicities, and especially an increasingly-large percentage of Asian people.

Due to various economic factors, many otherwise-well-to-do people can no longer afford to live in the big cities. This includes many immigrants of other races who originally moved to this country to live in these big cities, and have never visited the rest of the country. These people (including the immigrants) started off just moving to commuter suburbs — but as those shot up in land value as well, people are now increasingly moving to outlying non-cosmopolitan small towns, which do still have lower land values.

And that's shifting the demographics of these small towns.

This wave of demographic shift has not yet reached the town I grew up in.

AFAICT there is a sentiment among people who live there that they don't want "outsiders" — i.e. immigrants / anyone who's not a tenth-generation resident of the country — to move into the town. The sight of such people — especially when those people are "city slickers" doing "tourist" things in the town — enrages them.

So, it's not a prejudice these people have that's specific to any one race of people — but it is a racially-motivated prejudice. It is, essentially, a racial purity mindset — whether the people living there would call it that or not. (I say "racial purity" generally rather than "white supremacist" specifically, because this dynamic exists in provincial small towns in every country that's currently experiencing demographic shift — with the people in those small towns being bigots against any ethnicity other than their own, but especially against whichever ethnicities are increasing in prevalence in the countrie's large cities and beginning to "spill over" into small towns.)

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#469

Post by odyssey7 »

phil21 wrote: post #441
odyssey7 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a rural area, where everyone has a southern accent, which sounds like nothing but music to me. My relatives tend to live next to expanses of farmland, as I myself previously lived for years. Although I’ve recently moved to the city that’s about 45 minutes from where I grew up—-due to a return-to-office policy and also managing to use years of experience to land a solid software job in my home state—-I re…

Yes, if I moved back to my home town and spent time around my family and friends I also would be welcomed since I’m not an outsider. I’m not talking about people who previously had roots that came back home as a wayward son. Those people, including me, will get a pass as we are one of the good ones. Especially (and maybe only) so because we’ve kept up relations and close ties over the interceding years and we are cur…

If tech elites are making this call on behalf of generations-old communities, what jobs they’re allowed to have locally——sounds a little like a communist, planned economy, where some districts are assigned to have certain gainful opportunities and others are assigned to not have them——based on their own value judgements and informal conversations, it’s the height of arrogance for them to reason that only they can keep the social structure from fracturing in a tight-knit community of which they were never a part.

Why not put it to a vote at the community level, out of respect for community autonomy, economic freedom, and democratic values? I can tell you that the people who are close enough to their children for them to want to stay around would never say no to a job opportunity that lets them do just that without sacrificing their career to do so. To boot, these communities generally have been home to at least some remote workers for decades already, but much of tech has fallen ill to narcissism in believing that it is somehow too special / important to also provide such an opportunity.

The majority of people who choose to live in their hometown, over a flashier place that they could also afford, are doing it out of love for their community, not out of some anti-social tendency to take advantage of it as you suggest. Perhaps some decision makers, somewhere, got where they are through a self-selection bias, and are projecting their own psychological quirks onto others.

There are a great many people whose families have roughly stayed put for generations. Your reasoning / dismissiveness / lack of care for these people shows a lack of insight or a tendency to marginalize the concerns of people from rural America.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#470

Post by simmanian »

rayiner wrote: post #464
dyauspitr wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you’re ethnically Bangladeshi, have you never had someone in the US be racist to you?

I have! Indians can tell I’m Bangladeshi and exclude me in just us desis” groups. And once I was riding in an elevator with an Arab family and they said something in Arabic about the “Bangladeshi” that I assume wasn’t very nice. The only time a white American ever said anything negative to me was a middle school bully, and I called him a pig-nosed pink pig in response. Both of us were just looking to get a rise out o…

when white people call me chinese ching chong it's not racism, but when arab people say something about bangladeshi, then of course it's racism? i have a couple guesses as to why you would think this way and it's sad.
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