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M4 Mac mini's efficiency

jeffgeerling.com

461–470 of 632 posts

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#461
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like seriously WTF are people turning it off its 3 watts at idle lol, most power supplies have that much phantom drain lol

My EU mind is blown by these claims. Let’s take the lowest(1W) at sleep mode. With a thousand mac minis at sleep mode, that is already 1kW! In my country, a single person household’s yearly electricity package comes at 1400kW(+100 depending on provider) per year. Note: intentionally keeping it simple, please don’t nitpick.

It’s not clear what your point is because you’ve made a strong argument for it being negligible.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#462
Kinda unrelated, but with all this amazing efficiency, I wish Apple would re-introduce the one feature that made me truely love my old MacBook.

On my ~2010 Macbook Pro they had a series of small green lights on the chassis that acted as a battery indicator. When the laptop went to sleep, it would take on a slow breathing like animation effect. It was beautifully done. I was sad when it was removed.

Please bring this back.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory usage is not comparable across Linux and Mac. MacOS is much better at avoiding swap, uses memory compression, shared frameworks etc. At the same time it tries to use all the memory available which makes direct system-wide comparisons not accurate. A good rule of thumb is that 8GB on Mac == 16GB on Windows/Linux.

Compared to Linux that's flat not true. Someone has been blowing marketing up your ...

As a person who uses both, daily, its kinda true.

MacOS does seem to “use all the ram” but never falls over itself.

I think the kernel is likely genuinely better in low memory conditions (its hard to be worse than Linux here to be honest) - and thats combined with being aggressive about using as much of the ram as there is available opportunistically. (not fully unloading applications when closing them for example).

“WindowServer” uses 2-3G of ram, and electron apps use lots too; but truthfully my macbook is able to sustain significantly more open programs than my linux laptop, despite my linux laptop actually having more memory. (32G vs 24G for the Mac).

I cant explain it and I am genuinely curious how this is the case, but at least anecdotally, parent is more correct than not.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#464
post #9

I use Linux, but I think the cheapest M4 Mini offers an incredible value and efficiency per €. With education discount, it's around €650, including VAT. It's pretty hard to find such a silent and powerful machine for that little. Any comparable options? A good fanless build with a i3-14100T is more expensive and 40-50% slower on Geekbench. An i5 is a bit closer. Some 2024 Ryzen CPUs can match or exceed its multicore…

Maybe for a little server or something, but with the hard to upgrade 256GB storage.. I don't get the appeal. Also 16GB of memory is extremely limited these days. Again, perfect for a little server, but not for a daily driver.

The storage is easily upgradable on the new Mac mini as it’s using a standard M2 SSD (a short version)

https://youtu.be/cJPXLE9uPr8

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#465
post #9

I use Linux, but I think the cheapest M4 Mini offers an incredible value and efficiency per €. With education discount, it's around €650, including VAT. It's pretty hard to find such a silent and powerful machine for that little. Any comparable options? A good fanless build with a i3-14100T is more expensive and 40-50% slower on Geekbench. An i5 is a bit closer. Some 2024 Ryzen CPUs can match or exceed its multicore…

650$-€ for 16GB and 256GB? No. Hell no.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#466
post #225
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a comparison mentioned on last week’s episode of the Accidental Tech Podcast, I don’t remember if it was pointed out to them or they noticed it themselves. Base Mac mini: $599, 16/256 GB Double storage and ram: $600 upgrade. Price of 32/512 config: $1199 Two 16/256 machines: $119 8 . The ram is (Apple) reasonable at $200, but $400 for the storage doubling is insane.

Also, the 256 uses 2x128 drives while the 512 uses a single drive, so you even get slightly slower storage with the upgrade. The base model is a great deal.

This is true for the Mac Studio but not for the M4 Mac Mini -- they all have a single storage slot and the only difference between the 256 and 512 models is the model of the NAND chips.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a burden. I consider it a typical Tim Cook decision, in that the man led the company that made one of the fastest CPUs in the world, makes it draw as much as a Raspberry Pi. Absolutely crazy feats of engineering, design, manufacturing… and - There is that ONE detail that would’ve made it perfected but it’s botched! I don’t mind it too much, since it’s still 99% close to perfect. But, but…

Hah, Tim Cook decision pretty much sums it up; its the kind of thing that wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds when placed in front of Jobs (although there is a strong chance Jobs would have demanded his own nonsensical addition/subtraction to the design).

Jobs would have kept the button on the bottom, as it's not the proper way to use a computer.

Instead, he would have put motion/light sensors on the screen, so it would automatically wake up when you are sitting in front of it. Macs don't shutdown, they just go to sleep and wake up when you need them.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#468
post #353
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be suffering from a categorical blindness to a certain type of thing humans do. Let's say I own a private beach. I want to allow my beach to be enjoyed freely and responsibly by a reasonable number of people, whether friends or strangers. I don't want to constantly be cleaning up garbage on my beach. And I don't want the beach to be overcrowded when I myself use it. So what do I do? Well, I'm sure n…

That is a great write up. But I think this proves even more my point that people do anything to make an excuse for cheating :) I agree that there might be some open secrets. This particular case is not comparable. Simply, because it does not make sense. Apple is making a harware business. They are already are giving the discount for the correct use base where the discount is an actual investment * Students that then…

> That is a great write up. But I think this proves even more my point that people do anything to make an excuse for cheating :)

You would have an argument (not a good argument) if I ever actually took advantage of the education discount. But I don't!

(I get all my Apple computers as business-lease equipment from my employer, within which I have arbitrary IT equipment purchasing authority. And then, once they've fully depreciated, I buy those computers from my employer for a trivial sum to become my personal computer(s), and also order new current-gen work computer(s). Is this "cheating?" No, Apple loves this — my employer is paying full price, and never gets any sort of discount. And my employer also loves this — they just want me to be productive, and paying a few thousand dollars to buy whatever arbitrary equipment I requisition every two years, is extremely cheap for how much my added productivity will make them over that period. Given the different things each party in this relationship values, this is a win-win-win.)

> For others, why this would be open secret? The correct user base already gets the discount. There are no benefits to give discount for others as well, even in secret.

As roughly seven other people have replied to you: price discrimination. The user base Apple would like to help out are "individual buyers who just barely cannot afford Apple products, with a $100 discount being enough of a difference to prevent them from falling out of the funnel."

Students tend to be central members of this group; but Apple, in practice, seems to actually want to help this group as a whole.

(And why wouldn't they? It's not like they're making a loss on education-discounted sales. They're making money and getting people into the Apple ecosystem, where they'll hopefully dive deeper once they have more money!)

But there's no way to openly offer "anyone who needs a $100 discount to be convinced to buy an Apple product" that $100 discount, without either:

• sounding like you're literally calling people poor (open "means-adjusted pricing"? It's been tried; people hate it! Only ever gets aired out as a TAM-expansion tactic in markets for extremely-inelastic-demand goods with zero competition, e.g. on-patent medications.)

• or leaving a loophole for rich people to find that results in Apple not being able to milk them.

And the one thing that goes against every strand of a luxury consumer product company's DNA, is the thought of letting a rich buyer with high willingness-to-pay get away with a low-margin purchase. In Apple's business, milking one rich customer can give you the net profit of dozens of low-margin customers. (Think: convincing some Mr. Moneybags who walks into an Apple Store thinking they want a Mac Mini, that what they really need is a fully-upgraded Mac Studio.)

> However, people start posting about your beach in social media, or even in Hacker News. Friends of friends of friends tell about their friends too. Now the beach is crowded and all randoms are the all the time! What would you do? Get a bouncer or put "a real" Trespassing sign? And even your friends can't enjoy the beach anymore.

How is this comparable? As other sibling replies state, the open secret of the Apple education discount has been widely dispersed for at least a decade now. It is at equilibrium — it clearly isn't spreading to the point that "the beach is overcrowded." Ask a random person off the street — heck, ask the average person on HN five minutes before this thread started — and they would not know that Apple offers an education discount but doesn't verify academic status.

You want to know what an open secret reaching fixation looks like? Picture it being discussed in "money-saving tips" listicle videos put out by popular [i.e. tens-of-millions-of-subs] vloggers. Not even tech vloggers, either — I'm talking gaming vloggers, art vloggers, beauty vloggers, etc.

Some open secrets do run away like this — and yes, this does cause their creators to pull the plug! The Apple Store education-discount open secret is not like this.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#469
post #9

I use Linux, but I think the cheapest M4 Mini offers an incredible value and efficiency per €. With education discount, it's around €650, including VAT. It's pretty hard to find such a silent and powerful machine for that little. Any comparable options? A good fanless build with a i3-14100T is more expensive and 40-50% slower on Geekbench. An i5 is a bit closer. Some 2024 Ryzen CPUs can match or exceed its multicore…

> One can potentially use Nix on a Mac Mini to keep similar development environments to those used in Linux, but AFAIK some packages are not supported on ARM. Any experiences using Nix and nix-darwin as a daily driver?

Been using that ever since M1 became a thing; nothing worth mentioning, "not supported" is vanishingly rare in practice.

Re: M4 Mac mini's efficiency

#470
post #44
post #9

I use Linux, but I think the cheapest M4 Mini offers an incredible value and efficiency per €. With education discount, it's around €650, including VAT. It's pretty hard to find such a silent and powerful machine for that little. Any comparable options? A good fanless build with a i3-14100T is more expensive and 40-50% slower on Geekbench. An i5 is a bit closer. Some 2024 Ryzen CPUs can match or exceed its multicore…

> With education discount I don't understand why so many people use the discounted price as reference. Surely very few of us on HN are still in college? So let's use the actual price when making comparisons.

If you continue reading the sentence, it gets even more bizarre:

> it's around €650, including VAT.

Whatever taxes and discounts apply to the commenter’s own idiosyncratic situation have nothing to do with the price of the product.

A couple of years ago, I might have cared what the price of an M2 with Pasadena sales taxes was since I lived there at the time, but I sure wouldn’t have included them when talking about Apple prices here.

Similarly, VAT costs are between you and whatever jurisdiction you live in that’s levying them. Apple isn’t the one to thank or complain to about them.

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