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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#461

Post by posguy »

bmitc wrote: post #453
safety1st wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wild, apparently this stuff is in the Debian repos now? https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux-... So you can just apt install dotnet-sdk-8.0. This must be the most unfriendly Linux install documentation I've ever seen though, it was not easy to find the names of those packages.

What's unfriendly about just clicking through the options? Anytime I want to install .NET, I just go to that exact documentation, click on the distribution I want (usually Ubuntu), and then just click on the version ( https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux-... ). I almost always use Microsoft's feeds though, so as to not rely on the middleman of the Ubuntu package manager feeds.

Ubuntu is a subpar package maintainer, but in well run distros that middleman who does the packaging makes an effort to ensure you are getting a stable, performant package, and tries to catch eratta or abusive practices that upstream starts pushing (say, Microsoft opening Edge when you run wget or curl in the terminal, rather than calling the real wget or curl).

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#462

Post by hermitdev »

pjc50 wrote: post #355
paranoidrobot wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ".NET" label was applied to a bunch of things at Microsoft. It was also an early name given to their social networking / IM things. But for the last 20-ish years it's really only been applied to things related to the .NET Framework. So, yes - Visual Basic.NET is a language - it's the language that replaced Visual Basic 6. It compiles to the Intermediate Language (IL) that the Common Language Runtime (CLR) execute…

This was probably copying Sun's "we put the dot in .COM" advertising. Yes, this is stupid.

Microsoft needs to stop letting marketing decide product names. Just look at Xbox: Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#463

Post by hinkley »

internetter wrote: post #449
hinkley wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS Supports one of the tools for porting out of AWS. Supporting something that looks like an escape valve (whether it works or not) keeps the antitrust people off your neck.

What tool is that?

I can’t remember, sorry. I met them at a tech meetup a couple years before I was using AWS and it didn’t stick in my brain. Except the funding source bit.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#464

Post by pathartl »

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #55
dtquad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's own FOSS multiplatform implementation of the .NET runtime is now much more performant and feature complete than Mono. However Mono is easier to embed into other applications and easier to port to new platforms. That is for example why it's used for the .NET/Blazor WebAssembly stuff. Microsoft still maintains their own fork of Mono for this specific use case. Mono also implements some of the legacy Windows…

Mono also supports winforms. I don't think they're supported in dotnet (but there's libraries for Gtk, although you could also use Vala with a bit extra effort).

winforms are supported in .NET, obv only for Windows

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#465

Post by [deleted] »

hermitdev wrote: post #452
kuschku wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only. Gtk? Qt? Sure, they exist, but they're ancient and limited to long outdated paradigms. I don't know if you can get QtQuick with KDE Kirigami to work on .NET, otherwise that might be one option. Kotlin Multiplatform is btw a solution for building the same code for kotlin native, JVM and web t…

> Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? > Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only. MAUI is not windows only. I have a MAUI app on my android phone. Cross-platform? yes. Rich? Now, I wouldn't call it that.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#466

Post by kuschku »

hermitdev wrote: post #452
kuschku wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only. Gtk? Qt? Sure, they exist, but they're ancient and limited to long outdated paradigms. I don't know if you can get QtQuick with KDE Kirigami to work on .NET, otherwise that might be one option. Kotlin Multiplatform is btw a solution for building the same code for kotlin native, JVM and web t…

> Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? > Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only. MAUI is not windows only. I have a MAUI app on my android phone. Cross-platform? yes. Rich? Now, I wouldn't call it that.

> NET Multi-platform App UI (.NET MAUI) apps can be written for the following platforms:

> - Android 5.0 (API 21) or higher is required.

> - iOS 11 or higher is required

> - macOS 11 or higher, using Mac Catalyst.

> - Windows 11 and Windows 10 version 1809 or higher, using Windows UI Library (WinUI) 3.

Okay, where's Linux? That's what Mono was originally made for and where Mono really shines.

Also, the development experience isn't great either:

> - If you are working on Linux, you can build and deploy Android apps only

> - You need a valid Visual Studio or IntelliCode subscription

The getting started guide only exists for Windows and macOS and the forum post announcing experimental Linux support is full of caveats.

I don't think you and I would agree on what "cross-platform" means, especially in the context of Mono being donated to Wine, which is a heavily linux-centric discussion topic.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#467

Post by kuschku »

neonsunset wrote: post #440
kuschku wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only. Gtk? Qt? Sure, they exist, but they're ancient and limited to long outdated paradigms. I don't know if you can get QtQuick with KDE Kirigami to work on .NET, otherwise that might be one option. Kotlin Multiplatform is btw a solution for building the same code for kotlin native, JVM and web t…

There are more than 10 sibling and gp comments that exhaustively address the GUI and other questions :) > That's a massive advantage over the arcane package management and build systems of .NET. Very few languages ever achieve a build and package management system as mature and usable as the Java ecosystem. I've been waiting for 12 years for .NET to match Java's ecosystem, and it's still not there yet. If you want to…

> {my favourite package}

Well, that's where the problem lies, isn't it? The ecosystem for .NET is extremely limited compared to what's available for the JVM

And the way JVM packages are distributed, with native libraries, BOMs and platforms allows more versatility than any other platform.

The build system may be better in dotnet, but that only really matters for the first 10 minutes. Afterwards, the other tradeoffs become much more important.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#468

Post by ForOldHack »

trustno2 wrote: post #302
486sx33 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But….net is everything! And also nothing ! It’s a product? It’s a suite! It’s a system ! Visual Basic .net ! What ?

It's the Microsoft way to apply the same name to bunch of unrelated products. everything is .net, azure, 365, now also copilot.

Copilot is just Clippy II+.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#469

Post by nedt »

fluoridation wrote: post #448
nedt wrote: post #157

Mono was very useful in university. Must have been 2005 when I got asked if I wanted to use Java or C# for the programming course. Being bored with Java I picked C#. We were a very small group of two students. But as I just had a Powerbook I used Mono to run it on OS X. At the end of the course someone from Microsoft came to the university to answer any of our question about upcoming features in .NET and C#. And as w…

8! is 40320. Even if it took 10 times as many iterations to find the correct order, it would still only be less than 4 million swaps. Just how slow was that computer?

So it was a PowerPC, not so much Software was optimized. Then it was a new language written to be used on Windows. And that was run via Mono, which was a 3rd party actually writing it for Linux and not a BSD derivative on a CPU that no one is using with a kernel that's different. It might not have been that horrible, but it was just a quick presentation. Nothing that should even run for a minute.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#470

Post by ptx »

chungy wrote: post #281
TillE wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how Linux distros work. The OS maintainers make their own packages.

It sure wouldn't hurt if they hired a Debian Developer to do it right, or maybe work through the process of turning an employee into a Debian Developer.

Debian developers can do it right because they're not affiliated with the vendor, so they can disable user-hostile features and settings that the vendor enables by default.
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