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DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

justice.gov

461–470 of 646 posts

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#461

This case -like the Sackler case- I hope they burn the company down with malice to make an example. I have similar feelings about Airbnb. I think they caused a good deal of harm, but I'm more kind to the argument they are allowing market forces to act. People are priced out by mid-level wealth holders in nice locations who rent out to tourists; homes young families could have enjoyed. Airbnb could be a net harm on so…

[deleted]

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#462
post #152
post #19

>Armed with competing landlords’ data, RealPage also encourages loyalty to the algorithm’s recommendations through, among other measures, “auto accept” functionality and pricing advisors who monitor landlords’ compliance. I think the "private prices" + "autoaccept" + "compliance" is the key misbehavior that gets RealPage into legal trouble. If competitors want to converge on prices in a legal manner , they have to do…

I think you're over analyzing and confusing things. Price fixing is when competitors work together to raise prices above what they would normally be in a competitive market. Using your gas station example, a gas station isn't going to look at a competitor selling gas at $4.15 and decide to raise their price to $4.45. They would lower their price to match the competition, otherwise they'd lose sales and make less mone…

If instead the 2 gas stations were both selling at $4.45 and looked around and decided not to lower their prices to $4.15 even though they could, it's equivalent.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the underlying issue is a lack of supply. However, if a landlord is commanding a 30% profit margin on a non-luxury apartment then I think they are contributing to the problem (to be clear, I'm not insinuating anyone in this thread is doing this). I think the only objective way to tell if it's priced too high is by the profit margin, but of course even that can be inflated if e.g. a developer took a huge…

Business arent charities. Almost every one is trying to maximize profits.

Landlords also aren’t businesses. They’re a class of parasitic rentiers who siphon off wealth from economic activity around them and use corrupt means to prevent competition (mostly bribing politicians to constrain supply).

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#464
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're over analyzing and confusing things. Price fixing is when competitors work together to raise prices above what they would normally be in a competitive market. Using your gas station example, a gas station isn't going to look at a competitor selling gas at $4.15 and decide to raise their price to $4.45. They would lower their price to match the competition, otherwise they'd lose sales and make less mone…

If instead the 2 gas stations were both selling at $4.45 and looked around and decided not to lower their prices to $4.15 even though they could, it's equivalent.

Or one of them could lower to 4.35 and take all the business. Which is normally what would happen without collusion.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone else runs into this issue, typically the direct route for things like this is to get involved a discussion with someone in your Total Rewards / Global Compensation team. These are usually the people that confirm the mapping of internal positions to benchmarks, and there is huge between-organizations variability in the quality behind that process. Many times normal managers or more generalist HR Partners (es…

HR is not your friend. Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro is a recommended read. My advice; get a better offer elsewhere, then see if HR wants to pay you your worth.

The comment you replied to seems to be targeted at managers trying to advocate for their teams, not at individual contributors trying to advocate for themselves. I agree that reaching out to the compensation team as an IC is generally not going to be an appropriate or effective way to get a raise. But for managers, working with HR on issues like that is just part of the job.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone else runs into this issue, typically the direct route for things like this is to get involved a discussion with someone in your Total Rewards / Global Compensation team. These are usually the people that confirm the mapping of internal positions to benchmarks, and there is huge between-organizations variability in the quality behind that process. Many times normal managers or more generalist HR Partners (es…

HR is not your friend. Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro is a recommended read. My advice; get a better offer elsewhere, then see if HR wants to pay you your worth.

> HR is not your friend.

Most people don't get this.

HR exists to protect the company from the employees, not protect the employees from the company.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#467
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing supply is inelastic due to the time it takes to permit and built. Housing demand is more elastic than you suspect. People have income on a curve, and at a certain point of price/quality will move further out and commute or move to a lower cost of living city entirely.

Meanwhile, I know many people in NYC who spend ~60% of their post-tax income on rented housing. Nobody is happy about it or thinks it's a good idea, but living further out is not perceived as a legitimate option because of the fear of being severed either socially or career-wise. Whether that's a rational fear or not, it's a reality that allows housing prices to outpace wage gains every year. As somebody who used to…

Yes, living in one of the, if not the, most desirable cities on the planet comes with additional costs.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have a strong incentive to undercut them Not in a supply constrained market where your rental will be occupied either way.

If all units are being rented there is no collusion as the market clearing price is being charged. Collusion requires taking supply off the market in order to raise prices.

> Collusion requires taking supply off the market in order to raise prices.

This is factually incorrect.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#469
post #19

>Armed with competing landlords’ data, RealPage also encourages loyalty to the algorithm’s recommendations through, among other measures, “auto accept” functionality and pricing advisors who monitor landlords’ compliance. I think the "private prices" + "autoaccept" + "compliance" is the key misbehavior that gets RealPage into legal trouble. If competitors want to converge on prices in a legal manner , they have to do…

The classic way that businesses openly coordinate their pricing is via price matching. Businesses advertise their preferred prices but also promise that they'll match lower prices from competitors. Competitors see these advertisements and set their own prices to approximately match. The FTC does not consider this type of open signaling to be price fixing: > Q: Our company monitors competitors' ads, and we sometimes o…

Price matching was something that really worked in the past, again in the days before mass digitization and cheap storage/printing. Add in there are only a few major retailers left, it becomes easy to make a product for each of them.

CostCow will have product 0ICU812a

WalWart will have product 0ICU812b

Then they don't have to actually price match because they are "different products"

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#470
post #19

>Armed with competing landlords’ data, RealPage also encourages loyalty to the algorithm’s recommendations through, among other measures, “auto accept” functionality and pricing advisors who monitor landlords’ compliance. I think the "private prices" + "autoaccept" + "compliance" is the key misbehavior that gets RealPage into legal trouble. If competitors want to converge on prices in a legal manner , they have to do…

What I'm having a hard time understanding is why RealPage cared about "compliance" in the first place - do they charge as a % of rent? That seems nuts, I would imagine landlords hate that.

If not % of rent then I can't understand why the company would want rents to be higher across the board.

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