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Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

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Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always respond with "if it's never enforced, then you'll be fine with me taking it out" Then I strike the offending passage out on both copies of the contract, sign and hand it back to them. Your move. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Do you really do this, and is striking out a line of a contract binding?

Yes, I really do this. Have done since I started working.

At one of my first jobs as a student employee they offered me a salary X. In the contract there was some lower number Y. When I pointed this out, they said "X includes the bonus. It's not in the contract but we've never not paid it". OK, if this is really guaranteed, you can make that the salary and put it in writing. They did, my salary was X and that year was the first time they didn't pay the optional bonus. Didn't affect me, because I had my salary X.

IANAL and I don't know how binding this is. I'd think it's crucial for it to be in both copies of the contract, otherwise you could have just crossed it out after the fact, which would of course not be legally binding at all and probably fraud (?)

In practice, it doesn't really come up, because the legal department will produce a modified contract or start negotiating the point. The key is that the ball is now in their court. You've done your part, are ready and rearin' to go, and they are the ones holding things up and being difficult, for something that according to them isn't important.

UPDATE:

I think it's important to note that I am also perfectly fine with a verbal agreement.

A working relationship depends on mutual trust, so a contract is there for putting in a drawer and never looking at it again...and conversely if you are looking at it again after signing, both the trust and the working relationship are most likely over.

But it has to be consistent: if you insist on a binding written agreement, then I will make sure what is written is acceptable to me. You don't get to pick and choose.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#462

The amount [and scale] of practices, chaos and controversies caused by OpenAI since ChatGPT was released are "on par" with the powerful products it has built since.. in a negative way! These are the hottest controversial events so far , in a chronological order: OpenAI's deviation from its original mission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34979981). The Altman's Saga (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3830961…

Why is AI so dramatic? I just watched mean girls and this is worse.

The best case business pitch is total replacement of all white collar jobs. It's even more a "take over the world" pitch than regular tech companies. Now, quite a lot of that is unrealistic and will never be delivered, but which bit?

AI raises all sorts of extremely non-tech questions about power, which causes all the drama.

Edit: also, they've selected for people who won't ask ethical questions. Thus running into the classic villain problem of building an organization out of opportunistic traitors.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#463

The amount [and scale] of practices, chaos and controversies caused by OpenAI since ChatGPT was released are "on par" with the powerful products it has built since.. in a negative way! These are the hottest controversial events so far , in a chronological order: OpenAI's deviation from its original mission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34979981). The Altman's Saga (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3830961…

Why is AI so dramatic? I just watched mean girls and this is worse.

Thank you for making me laugh. Seriously, I think working for openai already selected for people who are ok with playing in the grey area. They know they ignore copyright and a few other rules. It's not surprising to me that they would also not be very nice to each other internally.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#464

The amount [and scale] of practices, chaos and controversies caused by OpenAI since ChatGPT was released are "on par" with the powerful products it has built since.. in a negative way! These are the hottest controversial events so far , in a chronological order: OpenAI's deviation from its original mission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34979981). The Altman's Saga (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3830961…

Why is AI so dramatic? I just watched mean girls and this is worse.

It's probably the perceived value & power it has.

They think they are about to change the entire world. And a very large but of the world agrees. (I personally think it's a great tool but exaggerated)

But that created an very big power play where people don't act normal anymore and the most powerhungry people come out to play.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#465
Who is bullish or bearish on OpenAI?

Now that LLM alternatives are getting better and better, as well as having well funded competitors. They don't yet have seem to developed a new, more advanced technology. What's their long term moat?

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#467
I think it’s time to cancel that Chat GPT subscription and move to something else. I am tired of the arrogance of these companies and particularly their narcissistic leaders who constantly want to make themselves the centre of the piece. It’s absolutely ridiculous to run a company as if you’re the lead in a contemporary drama.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#468
> ..or agreeing not to criticize the company, with no end date

Oh! free speech is on trade! We used to hear the above statement coming from some political regimes but this is the first time I read it in the tech world. Would we live to witness more variations of this behavior on a larger scale?!

> High-pressure tactics at OpenAI

> That meant the former employees had a week to decide whether to accept OpenAI’s muzzle or risk forfeiting what could be millions of dollars

> When ex-employees asked for more time to seek legal aid and review the documents, they faced significant pushback from OpenAI.

> “We want to make sure you understand that if you don't sign, it could impact your equity. That's true for everyone, and we're just doing things by the book,”

Although they've been able to build the most capable AI models that could replace a lot of human jobs, they struggle to humanely manage the people behind these models!!

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#469
post #343

PG is Altman's godfather more or less. I am disappoint of these OpenAI news as of late. 5. Sam Altman I was told I shouldn't mention founders of YC-funded companies in this list. But Sam Altman can't be stopped by such flimsy rules. If he wants to be on this list, he's going to be. Honestly, Sam is, along with Steve Jobs, the founder I refer to most when I'm advising startups. On questions of design, I ask "What woul…

This relationship feels like Michael and Ryan from The Office.

One is a well meaning but very naive older person who desperately wants to be liked by the cool kids, the other is a pretentious young conman who soars to the top by selling his “vision”. Michael is a huge simp for Ryan and thinks of himself as Ryan’s mentor, but is ultimately backstabbed by him just like everyone else.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really do this, and is striking out a line of a contract binding?

Why not? A labor contract is a 2-ways street. If the company doesn't like the new version, they will not sign it and not hire you.

Exactly. And just like I have to be fine with not getting the job if my conditions are not acceptable to them, they have to be fine with not getting me if their conditions are not acceptable to me.

Considering the considerable effort that has gone into this by the time you are negotiating a contract, letting it fail over something that "is not important" and "is never enforced" would be very stupid of them.

So if they are unwilling to budge, that either means they were lying all along and the thing that's "never enforced" and is "not important" actually is very important to them and definitely will be enforced, or that they are a company that will enforce arbitrary and pointless rules on employees as long as they think they can.

Neither of which is a great advertisement for the company as an employer.

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