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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

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461–470 of 769 posts

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#461
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you did some kind of shell game with 5 different people all passing around their items, then you don’t get charged correctly is it theft? IANAL but I'm confident the legal answer is "yes", the same as if someone was using sleight-of-hand with objects at a cashier-and-conveyor-belt checkout station. Whether charges are brought and how easily the case can be proved is another matter, but the intent is what makes i…

I thought one of the marketing lines was that Amazon was so confident/comfortable in their implementation was that they assumed all liability for mistakes (though as I type this I realise they may have worded it to encapsulate only honest mistakes rather than people trying deliberately to break the system).

> they assumed all liability for mistakes

To get a little pedantic, assuming such a promise existed, it actually doesn't mean as much as most people think.

A merchant saying "we won't sue you in civil court for the missing money" does not prevent the local government from criminally prosecuting that same person for theft.

American TV dramas often show the police asking people "Do you want to press charges?", but the idea that the question matters is a myth, since victims of crime don't get to decide that. At best, it's a terribly misleading shortening of: "Just for my own private curiosity, do you plan to lobby or press upon your local government officials into pressing charges?"

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#462
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dominos had this down pat twenty years ago, how come everything with an app is so much more expensive? The people making the app need a much bigger cut than Domino's. Domino's cut only needs to be big enough to pay their delivery drivers, they make their money selling pizza and the delivery is just an additional service that drives business. The app maker needs a cut big enough to pay their delivery driver and also…

I would contend that Dominos is a pizza logistics company rather than a seller of retail pizza (compare Pizza Hut). https://biz.dominos.com/about-us/innovations/ They're not just selling pizza to make money - but also looking at making cars. https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/why-dominos-dxp-d... While I'm not going to claim that was a good idea, the point is that Dominos sees making and delivering pizza as o…

It’s a shame they did not name the car model Deliverator

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of services would be phenomenal when you can offload much of the cost to run them to cheap offshore labor. Remember how great Uber and Doordash were when much of the cost of operating was offset by underpaid workers and VC funds? Now that they don't have unlimited piles of money and cities/states are making them pay more fair wages, the cost-benefit of those services has diminished. I was ok paying $5 for $20 of…

"Underpaid" and "fair" is a modern political myth, except in the instances when there is a concerted effort to undermine the semi-natural labor market. Pay will never be enough, as a point of fact. It will always be "underpaid" and "unfair" in discussion. As this is an immortal pressure and negotiating tactic. It is incentivized, and therefore we will get more of it. That works both ways, but at some point there has…

Is Marx really that modern?

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Underpaid" and "fair" is a modern political myth, except in the instances when there is a concerted effort to undermine the semi-natural labor market. Pay will never be enough, as a point of fact. It will always be "underpaid" and "unfair" in discussion. As this is an immortal pressure and negotiating tactic. It is incentivized, and therefore we will get more of it. That works both ways, but at some point there has…

Fascinating that you can see "underpaid" and "fair" wages as political myths but not "unskilled labor."

Are you saying that "unskilled labor" is like the other two in just being spin on "I don't approve of market forces"?

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#465
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalization was largely a response to environmental movements in the U.S. We offshored our pollution generation.

Also industrial safety, worker hours, etc

You don't always even need to move things out-of-county to do regulatory arbitrage. For example Uber and Airbnb.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why they're pushing it so hard? That's good to know.

It's a piece of speculation on HN, not fact.

I would credit it much less if it corresponded less well with my observations over more than 20 years shopping weekly at grocery stores, mostly Giant and its predecessors, in Maryland.

My current local grocery store has been my local grocery store for most of those 20-plus years. I remember when it was still a Super Fresh. It was a better place to shop then, and had about twice the current staff, despite at that time being quite a bit smaller.

That Giant has hollowed out the workforce is not in question. The question has been why; I didn't know grocery workers here were unionized, but if the union here is as effective as the one I hoped to join in my own high-school summer job days bagging groceries, then this frankly makes a lot of sense as a reason.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#467
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After ton of investment investors are finally looking for returns now. We need a quippy phrase for this, but unfortunately "Pump and Dump" is already taken for a kind of stock-market manipulation. Instead, I would like to coin/nominate "Tease and Squeeze". First consumers are teased by the idea that the disruptive new service has invented a magic new secret to low prices and great value... But after the company as…

What's wrong with enshittification[0]? Granted, Tease and Squeeze has a nicer ring. Then again, the enshittification neologism became standard langue in no time and is understood by everybody. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

It's arguably less descriptive. "enshittification" only really says "things getting worse", whereas "Tease and Squeeze" describes the whole cycle.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#468
post #243
post #190

This is pretty sad to read. Before Covid, the Amazon Go store experience was phenomenal. All the convenience of a 7-Eleven but with the pricing of a normal grocery store. The food options were really good and the BlueApron style meal-kits were amazing. The Alexa integration was also nice for being able to just verbally ask what's the next step on a recipe while you're busy stirring or chopping things. When it rolled…

I'm glad it's gone for good, if the process really works like how it's described in the article. Thousands of poor souls doing terrible pointless menial work just so that a few entitled customers can avoid the clunky self checkout (eww- the horror!). The entitlement of the west has no bounds really.

The point of the store was to provide the appearance of conventional retail while being exclusive to "members". This would theoretically cut down on shoplifting and boost profits at the expense of shutting out marginalized people.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#469
post #190

This is pretty sad to read. Before Covid, the Amazon Go store experience was phenomenal. All the convenience of a 7-Eleven but with the pricing of a normal grocery store. The food options were really good and the BlueApron style meal-kits were amazing. The Alexa integration was also nice for being able to just verbally ask what's the next step on a recipe while you're busy stirring or chopping things. When it rolled…

Lots of services would be phenomenal when you can offload much of the cost to run them to cheap offshore labor. Remember how great Uber and Doordash were when much of the cost of operating was offset by underpaid workers and VC funds? Now that they don't have unlimited piles of money and cities/states are making them pay more fair wages, the cost-benefit of those services has diminished. I was ok paying $5 for $20 of…

From my point of view, Uber and DD were always going to head in that direction because by any objective measure, they are worse than the solution that already existed. The introduction of a middleman created new costs for drivers, customers, and restaurants alike, yet it's actually worse at delivering food than the conventional "drivers work for the restaurant" model. Sure, you get one website where you can see all the delivery options in the area, but the cost is making all of those options shittier. I could rant about how stupid that industry is for hours, but I digress.

What Amazon is doing is different because they're actually doing something that adds value, and they're solving a problem that actually exists. Maybe I'm naive for believing any of this matters.

To be honest, I never thought much about how the whole system worked. I've only been in an Amazon Fresh twice. It had the "just walk out" thing but I don't have a Prime account so I never used it. I just figured it was UHF RFID. Seems like an obvious solution, but I'm not the engineer responsible for figuring out what to do if you put two exits next to each other.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#470
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self checkout is a better customer experience for me personally.

I've never experienced one reliable enough for this to be true (for me).

This surprises me. I regularly get in line and fully complete self-checkout before anyone who was there when I started scanning, even though I'm typically checking out with more items. What's causing the struggle? Every one of these works the same at every store - scan barcode, place item on the weight plate. Repeat. Press pay button, pay with card, whatever, tap/insert.
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