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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#461

Post by knewspeak »

rendall wrote: post #454

[flagged]

Though it's certainly sensible to question the accuracy of the numbers, considering Israel is making it impossible for anyone besides Hamas to verify those numbers and considering that the Netanyahu gov has actively given aid, comfort, and power to Hamas to crush any rival in Gaza [0][1], this then is also true:

Israel currently has no standing to dispute those numbers.

>Any article or media organization that does not point this out instantly loses credibility.

by that logic, any article or media organization that fails to point out the information in the references below also instantly loses credibility.

[0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#462

Post by selfmodruntime »

throwawayhate wrote: post #415
bawolff wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is the current situation lends itself to more pro-gaza headlines. For starters the situation is evolving more on that front. Every new action is a potential headline for palestine. On the other hand Israel's position is much more static: They want to prevent the slaughter on oct 7 from happening again, and are using force to do so. That hasn't changed. You can't make new headlines out of it. Its pr…

[flagged]

These are the horrifying realities of war. People may die. Borders may move. Atrocities may happen.

Does the defender turn into the aggressor and vice versa, when the „Winning“ side changes? Should war just „end“ at this point?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#463

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

shprd wrote: post #319
bawolff wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially that implies Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. I suspect most Israelis would find that unreasonable. Israeli civilians don't like being killed anymore than Palestinian civilians do. The thing that usually prevents war is that both sides lose in the end. If only one side is allowed to shoot, why would the side being allowed to shoot ever stop? They would be getting all the benefits…

> Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. The logic doesn't really follow What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. They're pretty clear as they expose themselves. Israel has 24/7 surveillance it shouldn't be a challenge. Can you support your claim by showing evidence that a hospital was used to launch missiles? You likely don't have evidence that Israel is targeting anything. It se…

The attack sites are in civilian areas.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#464

Post by hef19898 »

Jensson wrote: post #401
bawolff wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is the current situation lends itself to more pro-gaza headlines. For starters the situation is evolving more on that front. Every new action is a potential headline for palestine. On the other hand Israel's position is much more static: They want to prevent the slaughter on oct 7 from happening again, and are using force to do so. That hasn't changed. You can't make new headlines out of it. Its pr…

[flagged]

Because there is no proof Hamas did that? And for some reason, sometimes, not everyone wants headlines to lie?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#465

Post by EvgeniyZh »

tsimionescu wrote: post #436
EvgeniyZh wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn't mean they are using human shields Being indistinguishable from civilians (blending in) is exactly using civilian as a shield -- the opponent can't identify you and can't kill everyone who looks like you > They can still minimize civilian death Arguably Israel does it with fairly low civilian: combatant death ratio

> Arguably Israel does it with fairly low civilian: combatant death ratio Fairly low compared to what? The USSR invasion of Afghanistan? Assad engaged in a civil war? WW2 carpet bombings? No recent war has seen anywhere near the deplorable civilian:combatant death ratio that we see here. And if you also take into account that the IDF basically defines adult male as combatant, so that a lot of the "combatants" killed…

> No recent war has seen anywhere near the deplorable civilian:combatant death ratio that we see here.

Can you give the numbers for comparison? What are acceptable rate in your opinion?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#466

Post by hef19898 »

brookst wrote: post #431
McNutty wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the appropriate number of times to "just move on and ignore" before finally deciding to say something because the integrity of hn as a platform is at risk?

Is the integrity at risk from allowing difficult controversial subjects? Or from prohibiting them?

The latter. There are two recent topics that ended in flagging and really low quality doscussions, no curiosity, no open mindedness and sometimes utter disregard of human rights: Caste based discrimination and the war in Gaza. The latter usually has "pro-Gaza" submissions flagged even faster than the former had for stuff critizing castes and caste based discrimination.

I am torn, in the one hand those discussions are often rightfully flagged for the coments themselves. On the other hand, this shows a general social development I don't like, especially since HN used to be, or at least is suppossed to be, a place where even hairy topics can be discussed. And I think the "tech" community at large would only benefi from multiple views on those subjects.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#467

Post by yyyk »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #373
yyyk wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Because the Russian government took Ukrainian children to raise as Russians, something without parallel in I/P. I cannot find any reference to this as a reasoning for declaring genocide. 6 countries made a declaration, and all allegations centre around rampant killing of civilians. That's the main benchmark. > Weirdly, quiet a few of the nations making this critique were notably cool on Ukraine..hypocrisy is in the…

>I cannot find any reference to this as a reasoning for declaring genocide. 6 countries made a declaration, and all allegations centre around rampant killing of civilians. That's the main benchmark.

I haven't checked the PR statements, but the arrest warrant regarding the children includes the genocide charge[0], that's where the actual legal action centres, not around 'rampant killing'.

It's based on article 2(e) of the genocide convention: "Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[1]. Also, Russia is doing it publicly so it's easy to prove.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#cite_ref-C...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#469

Post by brtln »

sitkack wrote: post #429
pvg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes if you google 'how many journalists died in WW2' in Russian you get numbers from a couple of hundred to over a thousand for the Soviet Union alone. The 69 number listed at https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30embed.... is almost certainly just US journalists.

The vast majority of all deaths in the WW2 were Soviet. The Soviet Union really deserves the gold medal position for winning WW2.

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#470

Post by tety »

_xivi wrote: post #274
tety wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you claim they also made up all the photos of that journalist training on an ATGM? https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1756728159158812921

What about the others documented here? What about journalists from before, even completely outside Gaza, like Shireen Abu Akleh, the American-palestinian journalist who was sniped while reporting? There seems to be a long history of Israel targeting journalists exclusively and even their funerals https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/not-just-shi...

The fact that journalists in war zones died doesn't mean these were "targeted exclusively" is there any evidence that Israel has targeted journalists intentionally that weren't involved in the fighting?
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