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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#461

Post by matwood »

happytiger wrote: post #314
oaiey wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the individual layoff which is the issue for the people. It is the general feeling that the little man get squeezed under the argument of cost savings and the rich man takes out even more than the year before, independent of the market and company performance. In the past the entrepreneur took the yearly risks and was rewarded or not for it. The variation / risk on the (unrealistic) return is now managed on…

It’s one metric: revenue per employee. In a more capital expensive market, such as our current one, this metric is the one corporate managers are focusing on. For example, Google: https://fourweekmba.com/google-revenue-per-employee/ Ultimately it’s about something called austerity, which is taught in mba-jargon filled economic theory as a way to keep the working classes inline. Since the 1920s, western countries have…

Companies aren't charities. Just because they can afford to hire or keep an employee doesn't mean they should or have to.

You're also forgetting that raw dollars are not how companies are viewed. Every company is viewed on how it performs agains the risk free return rate. The rate going from 0 -> 5+ means companies must now generate returns in excess of the RFR in line with their generally accepted risk. This is the ultimate outcome of raising rates to reduce inflation - across the board layoffs lowering averages salaries.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#462

Post by hasty_pudding »

whatever1 wrote: post #75
hasty_pudding wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's going to be no tech jobs in America is what's going to happen. That's where this is headed.

Yeah this is what Amazon said about warehouse employees and now they have to pay them $25 per hour and offer free tuition programs in addition to fat sign up bonuses. Workers have the power. They just need to remember it.

Warehouses have locality.

Digital jobs dont.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#463

Post by deelowe »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #193
DrBazza wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are often non-compete clauses in employment contracts. Depending on the country, they're not worth the paper they're written on sometimes. In others, legally binding.

I don't think you get to non-compete people you fire. That's an on-resignation constraint.

A layoff isn't a firing unless you choose to not accept the package. Accepting a severance is considered voluntary separation. You sign a document stating this.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#464

Post by trelane »

astronads wrote: post #435
twh270 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. It means that you need to be responsible for yourself, and not allow thoughts like "I'm a valuable employee", or "I have too much seniority", or "my manager and I get along great" to convince you management won't lay you off or fire you or that they owe you anything. As oth…

This is good and realistic advice. Companies exist to make profit and returns for their investors/shareholders and ultimately they will do what this necessary to make that happen. Layoffs are just another (unfortunate) business transaction. I was once in a meeting with an SVP who was going over what he was going to say in an upcoming all-hands meeting. He kept referring to employees as “resources” and I told him he s…

> He kept referring to employees as “resources”

The classic comeback for this is to refer to management as "overhead."

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#465

Post by beepboopboop »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #284
fendy3002 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this goes both ways, employees can go out as they please. The opposite party usually get hurt when it happens (either the firing or employee go out), and usually coworkers / existing workers that get the bad things. So in my experience, don't get too attached to company (or coworker either), and go out if things start to go south or if there's better opportunity out there.

> And this goes both ways, employees can go out as they please. Spoken like a man who never needed healthcare, who never had dependents, who never lived under the cage of a visa.

I’m not the OP, but I don’t think you understood her/his comment. People leave jobs.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#466

Post by 10xDev »

What is interesting is that now with all the layoffs we also have more CS graduates than ever [0] who were told that tech companies are struggling to find candidates to fill their vacancies. We are reaching a point, if not already at the point where we will have bunch of unemployed CS grads who will have to make a pivot into something entirely different.

[0] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d22/tables/dt22_322.10.a...

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#467

Post by cromka »

> Google confirmed the Assistant cuts, earlier reported by Semafor, and the hardware layoffs, earlier reported by the blog 9to5Google.

Nice. So one can reasonably expect the Google Home device et all to get even worse at all the basic functionality it used to be quite good at as far as 2017.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#468

Post by m0llusk »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

In Europe unions negotiate with company leaders to make deals that help businesses negotiate market conditions. In the US unions enable workers to gang up on management in order to increase pay. The words are similar, but the structures, operations, and goals involved are all completely different.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#469

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

caskstrength wrote: post #440
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low I don't think they are. I think salaries in the US are astronomical, and it boggles the mind how in California a 22 year old React nerd can command a salary five times higher than, say, a teacher. It's all a matter of perspective. From my perspective, if you can sit on your sofa, build a website, and pull in €80k, you're doing just fine.

> It's all a matter of perspective. From my perspective, if you can sit on your sofa, build a website, and pull in €80k, you're doing just fine. Where do you put the sofa? For locals who inherited and apartment somewhere in Stockholm or Berlin, or have been living in rent-controlled apartment for 20 years, sure, 50k after-tax is fine-ish. What about expats who didn't inherit a 500k Euro apartment from their late gran…

You can comfortably rent an apartment in most of Europe at market rates on an €80k salary.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#470

Post by justanorherhack »

mrtksn wrote: post #194
sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

There's this phenomenon where employees earning higher than their friends and family OR at least doing work in a clean and safe environment tend to believe that they are not workers and they oppose regulations and unions because they feel like its beneath them. At the company of a friend of mine, the white collar employees do charity events for the blue colar ones and while the blue colar ones participate on labour d…

Nope. This is laughably out of touch -" I don't understand how certain people don't think like I do so they must be irrational." If unions were structured differently, there would be more incentives. People at large, in group form are much more rationale then academics want to give credit, they are simply following the incentives in their life and attempting to do what's best for themselves. Unions in the US are not very incentivising.

In the us, the way laws are written, unions are a political entity and basically from inception are in bed with the government. This creates a mismatch of incentives as the union is motivated to operate politically and this is reflected internally because that's how power is derived externally and thus internally. This creates a lot of odd things like the local foreman who manages the house is doing so because he has been around for 20 years or because he is friends with the guy who has been around for 20 years or because he bought in with millions to be that guy not because they are the right people for the job.

Because of these legal protections and structures unions don't have to compete against other unions and they don't have to compete for the workers membership either. For example the IATSE gets a cut of your work if you work in the industry because that's legally mandated even if you aren't a member. This encourages unions to become bloated, and self serving and it's not immediately clear their value add. Just like elsewhere in society top down structures begin to appear where a few people at the top of the union get most of the pie.

Workers are hesitate to involve themselves with unions here because they are yielding agency to a political machine in a fairly permanent way.

Don't forget some of the cons and headlines around unions here either. Some of the unions using violence, like the teamsters, here to gain power. Teachers unions trying to keep bloated headcounts in empty (by half) schools in Chicago nearly bankrupting the city. Police unions protecting their members despite obvious misconduct. Lots of police/fireman/city unions keep garenteeing investment return rates that aren't in line with the market that eventually bankrupt the city.

If the legal freedom and incentives were there people would do it, but this system is by design.

I am a soft engineer but have remained a iatse card holder.

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