Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you allowed to say what company you work for?
It's a FANG.
Thanks. If it's Google (and I suspect it is), what are they calling this employee development program and where can people apply?
IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
461–470 of 592 posts
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#462Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ageism is one of the bad things about our industry. It's the last accepted form of discrimination. The irony is that when you're young and starting a family, you feel guilty about working crazy hours because you're not spending time with your wife and kids. Then when the nest is empty you've got plenty of free time to work hard and even learn some new things, languages, frameworks, &c. but at that point a lot of clos…
not to nit pick but there are still many accepted forms of discrimination after ageism. My sample set is definitely biased. I see plenty of very conservative (doesn't want to learn, will only work in one technology) junior engineers, folks who are going to stall out. For senior folks I don't see many. This could be because older folks have jobs or are self filtering to the tech they like or maybe their resumes don't…
Thanks, this is a really valuable answer and makes sense to me. The only follow-up I would have would be if that dev with 10-20 years of experience applying for SDE2 did tell you in an interview that they didn't want to move "up or out" and their goal was to be a productive dev for as long as possible instead of applying internally for management roles, would you accept that answer?
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
Protectionism doesn't work beyond selfish short-term interests. American cars are not exactly paragons of technical or mechanical prowess compared to their Japanese or German counterparts. I've been a software developer for the better part of two decades, I'm not worried about the C-tier code coming out of rural India. You shouldn't be either unless you're a really bad dev.
the new CEO of Google is from India, no? I see a lot of very qualified people coming from India, around a big University here.. They have had twenty years to build to this.
Those talented indian engineers are paid on the global market rate though. The logic also goes the other way, those don't want to be underpaid.
That's why these outsourcing threats from companies make me laugh, they don't understand that software is a global market and they also are competing in it.
The world class FAANG-level Indian engineers which are underpaid just do not exist.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like this one, it's a little more subtle: https://yeshello.org/
I fear that one would be misinterpreted by a significant percentage of American office workers. And by an even higher percentage of overseas colleagues in some countries.
Agreed. Just ask the bloody question.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the Google pay scale, not a huge difference really. At least for engineering. Or at least some years ago when there was an internal spreadsheet circulating. Big part of compensation is in RSUs, in USD. Now... cost of living in Toronto is as high as the Bay Area. I wonder if the above commenter meant Waterloo (hour from Toronto), because that is where the bulk of the SWE staff is.
Canadian compensation for Google engineers AFAIK is about 60%-70% what it is in the Bay Area.
Base compensation, or GSUs? My base compensation was only maybe 1/3rd of my total comp.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many retire/quit/die each year
Relatively young industry, the population pyramid of workers would have more people at the bottom. So gaining only 700 jobs isn’t that fun. That being said, I feel bad for newgrads, since it feels like nobody wants to train them anymore. Any job posting I’ve seen is mostly 2-3 year minimum experience at a professional level.
I’m not sure that’s changed at all. I graduated in 93 and I remember having conversations with friends where we complained that all the jobs seemed to expect 2-3 years experience.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s still horrible and lots of people at large companies are worried of getting laid off any second.
Is it horrible or is it reversion to the mean? Post-COVID hiring and pay was completely unsustainable, and I'm shocked it lasted as many years as it did. You can't look at years of largesse and then when we get back to reality lament about how it's so horrible.
It’s horrible for people terrified that their job might disappear and they won’t be able to find another one.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a second part to this argument. There would be riots, for example, if agricultural workers were paid rates that would make Americans willing to do this. If you think food inflation is bad now, that would be off the charts. Like it or not, we benefit from cheap labor, across many, many different industries.
Something I advocate for in the UK is that we should actively suppress wages of industries like healthcare and agricultural with cheap foreign labour, while providing access to good and affordable education so that native workers maximally benefit from the migrant labour underclass. Specifically I think we should bring foreign workers here on mass to work in specific industries then deport them if they're unable to f…
What is your plan for when that cheap labour runs out or starts to become more expensive?
How are you going to compete with other countries doing the same thing but offering a better deal?
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#470The cognitive dissonance I'm getting from reading the comments here is pretty staggering. Where I live (The Netherlands) me and every IT person I know is getting absolutely hounded by recruiters. As an additional anecdote I'll add that I've just switched jobs to a start-up on very favorable terms and the recruitment process basically amounted to being cold called and asked "hey you wanna work here?". Can anyone here…
Think of it as a wave. Right now, the EU is getting a slightly smaller version of the hiring peak of 2 years ago in the US. EU wages are considerably less but the quality is nearly the same. Productivity is a bit lower, but the cost is still advantageous. The goal is to find the cream of the crop before the competition, so a ton of hiring, then assessment and in a year or so reducing the workforce and the wave moves…
> but the quality is nearly the same. Productivity is a bit lower
Slightly insulting to European developers?
Though I suspect a lot of European developers would say the same about their US colleagues…