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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#461

Post by submeta »

istultus wrote: post #423

What an absolute mind-fuck. I think the greatest thing the Moscow-Teheran-Beijing "bot army diplomacy doctrine" is showing us is that you can radicalize both the US right AND the US Left at the same time by speaking to each side's idiocies at full throat. We are nearing Elders of Zion territory here where the ratio of 2 Billion Muslims to 15 Million Jews, and thus the constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda, now c…

There is no need for Russian/Iranian propaganda bots. Israel does that already for them: Seeing how Israel tries to defeat Hamas by withholding water, food, electricity, medicines for 2.2mil civilians in Gaza or by using genocidal language by Netanyahu and his war cabinet (Netanyahu: „they are Amalek!“, Gallant: „they are human animals“, Herzog: „there are no innocent in Gaza“, and then compring Hamas to Hitler/Nazis/ISIS/Satan) or by bombing hospitals, schools, ambulances, killing civilians by the thousands, then at the same time handing out guns to Settlers who loot, kill, start pogroms in the West Bank.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#462

Post by [deleted] »

m_a_g wrote: post #74

Bit of a tangent, but I'm proud of the HN community. This post was flagged almost immediately, even though there were around 70 upvotes. Then, the admins decided to give us a chance. And so far, the discussions have been civil and very interesting.

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#463

Post by sudosysgen »

ristlane wrote: post #111
seydor wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

good for you, but this is not about how we feel, but about making peace. The palestine issue won't be solved this time like it was not solved in decades of war. you will just have thousands more new terrorists now, who watched family members die while trying to follow orders that israel had given them to protect them. This is a complex issue and not one for taking sides.

If Hamas wanted peace, they could have it. They don’t. They want to kill the Jews.

Why is Israel settling the West Bank and refusing to make peace with Fatah and the PA? There's no Hamas in power there but Israel has refused to stop violently removing people from their land on the basis of their ethnicity.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#464

Post by Unfrozen0688 »

narag wrote: post #304

Two ideas: 1. It was surprising to me that Hamas believed that filming and publishing their atrocities was a good idea. And more surprising that the response hasn't been a bigger backlash. 2. That makes me think that despite the fact that both parts think that infowar is necessary, the real war is fought on the ground, with weapons, bullets and bombs. Not with protests, declarations and tweets. Neither Israel nor the…

1. News outlets here actually did not show the full Hamas footage from Oct 7.

But they have no problem showing Hamas propaganda.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#465

Post by goalonetwo »

Coming from Europe and living in the US for the last couple of years, I'm shocked at how society here is clearly pro-israel.

It is very clear that in the US the life of an israel citizen is valued way above the one of a palestinian. It is sad to lose that level of humanity.

all of the discourse also conveniently ignores that Israel created a large-scale open-air prison in Gaza and removed any hope left for people living there.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#466

Post by dragonwriter »

fxd123 wrote: post #443
Animats wrote: post #383

Some of this information war seems to be intended from keeping the US from considering a third option - sitting this one out. One U.S. State Department official resigned over this when he saw Israel's weapons shopping list.[1] The US could provide humanitarian aid, but not military aid. Cut military aid to Israel. Maybe still provide Iron Dome reloads, but that's about it. Bring in a hospital ship off Gaza, to care f…

[flagged]

> Recall that Palestine's goal is to eliminate all Jews.

No, that's not Palestine’s goal.

Its not even clearly the goal of the Palestinian Islamist extremist group Israel fostered specifically to have a less sympathetic enemy to deflect pressure for peace with Palestine to use as a pretext for perpetual war, though it may be, and whose fault is that?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#467

Post by Macha »

KittenInABox wrote: post #61
mastazi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…

> I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances I think the notion that the vast chunk of Twitter or TikTok had a pre existing stance on Israel/Palestine before Oct 7 is kind of silly, imo? Before this I could scroll Twitter without seeing anything about Israel or Palestine for... idk. Weeks, months at a time. I'll maybe see one thi…

> I really struggle to believe anyone beyond a small minority even thought about Palestine or Israel before Oct 7.

It has been a relatively prominent issue in Ireland, and especially Northern Ireland for some time. You can find plenty of images over the years of republican murals with Palestinian flags on them (e.g. 10 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/189yeg/o... ), or conversely unionist bonfires with palestinean flags on it: (e.g. last year https://nitter.dafriser.be/M_AndersonSF/status/1542523209311... )

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#468

Post by wolverine876 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #435
wolverine876 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

My (current, possibly misinformed) understanding is that "from the river to the sea" refers to a Palestinian state that stretches from the west bank to Gaza. Under the current reality, I don't see how this would be accomplished without a mass genocide of (Jewish) Israelis. I'm open to the suggestion that (some?) people chanting this hope for this to be accomplished without violence, but speakers at such events have a…

There is a well-established solution to conflict, called democracy. People fight it out in ballots and legislatures; they resolve differences by the universal rules (apply to everyone) in indepedent tribunals (courts; they all are guaranteed human rights.

It doesn't work beautifully or easily or perfectly, but it keeps a lid on things generally. Our recent abandonment of it is awful, and serves only the warmongers, hateful, and power-hungry - the people who benefit from the absence of things like universal human rights.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#469

Post by sudosysgen »

jhallenworld wrote: post #455

I've been watching Project Ask recently: https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos It's fascinating to hear opinions on the ground from both sides. Some things I've learned or concluded: Young Palestinians are much more radical than older ones, who seem more flexible. I personally think the two-state solution is a non-starter, and watched these videos to see if a one state solution is at all viable (m…

Have you thought about why young Palestinians have a different opinion from older ones? The opinion of powerless people is not set in stone, but is often a reaction to things outside of their control.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#470

Post by waffleiron »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #435
wolverine876 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

My (current, possibly misinformed) understanding is that "from the river to the sea" refers to a Palestinian state that stretches from the west bank to Gaza. Under the current reality, I don't see how this would be accomplished without a mass genocide of (Jewish) Israelis. I'm open to the suggestion that (some?) people chanting this hope for this to be accomplished without violence, but speakers at such events have a…

I am going to answer this as honestly as possible, but this is a personal interpretation (like everything in this hn thread), it doesn’t refer to a free Palestinian state as much as it does to the people. When Israel is inherently setup as a country for Jewish people, that does indeed call for the abolition of the state of Israel as is, but to me that is like saying fighting against apartheid in South Africa was calling for a genocide of whites. It could have been if they would have fought for the need of having an apartheid state, but it wasn’t necessary.
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