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Who makes the most reliable new cars?

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Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#461

Post by hedgehog »

neogodless wrote: post #114
stouset wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a component. But I would be surprised if that’s a primary reason. There’s just a lot more to go wrong with an ICE vehicle. You need oil and regular oil changes. A radiator, tubing, and antifreeze. An alternator. A carburetor and a catalytic converter. Timing belts. A exhaust system. None of this (as far as I know, IANAM) is needed for an electric vehicle. A disproportionate amount of…

You may have misread the parent comment, which talked about HYBRID vehicles being more reliable than ICE-only vehicles. Hybrid vehicles include all of the comments of an ICE vehicle, plus they have electric batteries and motors, and may have a system of transferring power from either system to the wheels. Overall they have higher complexity than either ICE or electric-only vehicles.

This is not true, at least for the most popular Toyota hybrid drive train. It's probably got fewer moving parts than the ICE counterpart by virtue of dispensing with the automatic transmission. See sibling comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38466406

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#463

Post by lightedman »

BeetleB wrote: post #417
SkyPuncher wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the computers don’t tend to break. The things that do break are essentially the same as they were 20 years ago. The bells and whistles are mostly for creatures comfort. The mechanical components haven’t changed much. The only thing that I couldn’t fix on my own in my 2020 vs my 2006 was re-alignment of lane keep system after replacing the windshield.

Do computers last 20+ years in cars? As others have mentioned, sensors and stuff related to safety fail all the time. I recently paid $800 to re-enable the safety systems in my (newer) car after a part failed. I've never had such expensive repairs on my 20 year old car.

Do computers last 20+ years in cars? Well, my 2005 SAAB 9-3T is still working quite nicely outside of a failing turbo and the injectors needing replacing. Computer still tells me when lights are out, if I'm having A/B throttle sensor voltage issues, etc.

But that's 18 years old. Give me two more and we can have this convo again.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#464

Post by kube-system »

AmVess wrote: post #230
sharkweek wrote: post #213

My 3rd Gen Toyota 4Runner is old enough to drink and outside of routine maintenance requires almost no thought. "It's time to get a new car" given that car safety has drastically improved and I have two younger kids in that thing a few times a week but I'm honestly having a really hard time giving it up, something so reliable and plainly functional. New cars with all their computers and smart technology only look lik…

Keep the 4Runner and buy something new for a family hauler. New vehicles are much safer from a structural standpoint than older ones. Modern high strength steels form the safety cage of the vehicle, and greatly reduce the risk of injury in offset frontal impacts, side impacts, and rear impacts. And then you have the multitudes of air bags. Finally, the various electronic gizmos that further reduce risk of injury. The…

> The presence of high strength steels alone warrants a new vehicle purchase. Vehicles are disposable, people are not.

Agreed. Although the steels used for safety critical parts of new vehicles are now "ultra-high-strength steels", with tensile strengths exceeding a gigapascal. These can be 4x stronger than "high strength steel", and 6x stronger than steel from the "good ol' days"

e.g.: https://cdn-fastly.thetruthaboutcars.com/media/2022/07/19/92...

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#467

Post by bane »

porknubbins wrote: post #454
sharkweek wrote: post #213

My 3rd Gen Toyota 4Runner is old enough to drink and outside of routine maintenance requires almost no thought. "It's time to get a new car" given that car safety has drastically improved and I have two younger kids in that thing a few times a week but I'm honestly having a really hard time giving it up, something so reliable and plainly functional. New cars with all their computers and smart technology only look lik…

People complain about new cars being harder to fix because of electronics but I think post OBDII they are actually easier because they tell you what is broken with error codes and also forums of experts are just a click away. I do think its true that you can no longer be a diy hotrodder for most models because there is so much complexity with timing, emissions, fuel efficiency strategies, variable valve timing etc.

I think it's interesting that reliability seems to have two common semantic meanings:

1) Doesn't break

2) Easy to repair

I've had this discussion numerous times over the years and the second meaning, while surprising, seems to come up frequently.

"My Toyanda is ultra reliable"

"So is my 76 Esquinot. It's really easy to fix, ."

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#468

Post by Syonyk »

giobox wrote: post #350
Syonyk wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A standard hybrid (of the sort that a range of companies make, handwavingly a parallel hybrid with creep capability, which a PHEV is just a supersized version of) eliminates a huge swath of things that go wrong with ICEs. First and foremost, the transmission replaces the rather staggering pile of complexity of a modern automatic transmission, typically, with "a few motor/generators, some planetary gears, maybe a band…

> "First and foremost, the transmission replaces the rather staggering pile of complexity of a modern automatic transmission, typically, with "a few motor/generators, some planetary gears, maybe a band that only engages when a motor is already stopped, and some power electronics." Compared to the 9+ speed automatics, this is dramatically simpler. Quite a few hybrids don't even have a mechanical reverse gear, it's jus…

Are you using PHEV as "Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicle" in the sense of "Has a long range on battery only"?

The ones I'm familiar with (which, admittedly, don't cover the ones you use) are all "parallel drivetrain" sorts of things, with a Prius-type transmission. Though I'm really only familiar with the Prius and Volt type drivetrains.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#469

Post by lightedman »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #274
webel0 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I keep on thinking that a premium market will develop for Toyota and Honda cars from roughly ~2006-2010. Those cars were the height of internal combustion technology without all of the electronics.

Yeah. I honestly don't know if I'd trade my 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero for a 2023 anything. No trouble, no nonsense, it's fast enough, it doesn't nag at me if I drive around the block without my seatbelt, and minor repairs are rarely more than $100. A few years back, I had a late model Mercedes GLS, and the damn thing was in the shop almost every other month, and each time it was at least $300-400. Mostly it was electronic c…

"minor repairs are rarely more than $100"

2005 9-3 Linear here. I wish minor repairs were that cheap. Wait until you need your water pump replaced ;) Get ready to squick hard at the required labor charges (water pump is integral to the engine IIRC, requiring the engine to be pulled.)

Right now I need new spark plugs, injectors, and a turbo replaced, and a grounding strap issue somewhere I haven't been able to isolate. Gonna run me a small bit of change.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#470

Post by twisteriffic »

water9 wrote: post #443
dahart wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chips themselves don’t tend break, but wires and connectors and sensors all do tend to break, and they are effectively part of the computer system. Today, it’s practically moot where you draw the line. Something mechanical on my CRV broke somewhere, and the computer didn’t know what it was, and so the dealer didn’t know what it was, and the computer tended to shut down over unknown problems, and it eventually cau…

It’s actually the capacitors that fail first because they have a liquid electrolyte

I have never seen an electrolytic capacitor fail in an automotive context, and I've owned my fair share of capacitor plague-era vehicles. I'd imagine it's a combination of preferring other types of capacitor for that environment and not buying the cheapest shit they can find in the markets that day like Dell did.
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