Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also the people who are harmed are unimportant. Nobody cares if Harvey Weinstein is part of a dystopian social experiment.
I don’t follow. Is Harvey Weinstein a child or a minority in this analogy?
A prisoner.
Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
461–470 of 901 posts
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Glad we have so much energy focusing on legit bankers instead of the crypto that is actually funding multiple US adversaries at this very moment Funny you criticize crypto, when it actually solves all the bullshit you're mentioning. It's so nice knowing for a fact that when I send or receive crypto, it will 100% arrive within moments, unlike the absolute shitfest that is international transfers (like SWIFT).
100% agree. Crypto today is the only way how you can take control of your own funds. What use is the money in your Bank account if the ruling political party can label you an ultra-right extremist and retroactively lock all your money down, just because of a single 1$ donation you did to a cause you believed to be right, like Canada did?
> can label you an ultra-right extremist and retroactively lock all your money down
Nitpick: about half the time (on sufficiently long term average), they'll instead label you a ultra-left extremist (most infamously anti-COMINTERN initiatives in the 1930s-1950s, but it tends to wobble back and forth depending on what's politically convenient).
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#463Banks deserve nothing less than multiple molotov cocktails through their windows.
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, to say that "Bitcoin" is the epitome of blockchain technology, an ever-innovating field, is either ignorant or disingenuous.
Bitcoin is ever innovating in ways that are safe and transparent, see Taproot that was added fairly recently. Other crypto has proven to be at best run by incompetent folks, at worst straight up scams. Either way you lose with them. Sorry, but that's what the years have taught us.
Safe? Tacking on higher energy-costs through more complexity and increasing pollution across the planet as a result of the increased energy expenditure is safe innovation?
Distributed permissionless databases of any sort are a bust and a scam, period. This was tested and found true in the 70s.
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
At least in the UK, NatWest debanked Neil Farage's account for his political views. Even its CEO resigned over her lying. "19 Republican states accuse JPMorgan of closing bank accounts and discriminating against customers due to their religious or political beliefs" [1][3]. Of course, this site is not favorable to conservatives and their views. Some left activists' accounts are closed as well [2]. [1] https://www.bus…
> At least in the UK, NatWest debanked Neil Farage's account for his political views. Even its CEO resigned over her lying. No, a subsidiary of NatWest closed Farage's account when he no longer met the investment thresholds for the account he held. The CEO resigned for telling a journalist the above. That's not the same thing, at all.
No fan of Farage, but then why was most of the document the bank produced about what he did as a politician? Farage also claims he never met these supposed thresholds.
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah we need strong anti-Kafka laws so that individuals can always find out what they've been "charged" with and that there always need to be an "appeal" process and businesses are strictly denied the ability to claim that they can't reveal their methods.
This is one of the consequence of strong Anti Money Laundering law. Bank much prefers to avoid False Negative (letting money launderers operate).
It isn’t the bank’s preferences. Rather it is forced by the liability bestowed by them by the government. They don’t get the benefit of safe harbor like ISPs.
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#467I'm somewhat surprised no one here views this as an automated decisionmaking problem It's increasingly clear that automating important decisions like this is causing a lot of harm while removing most forms of recourse available to those affected. Coupled with the way automated decisions are used to perform and then launder fraud on a massive scale, maybe we should target laws at the automation itself: Require decisio…
I don't have Cash App, Venmo, Zello or any of those other micro payment apps because every single time that I sign up for one, I get automatically blocked on my 1st transaction. Zello is even offered directly by my bank so it's automatically linked to my banking info. Calling customer service leads nowhere. It all works out for me in the end because if I can't Apple Pay or Paypal someone I probably don't need their p…
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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#468I'm somewhat surprised no one here views this as an automated decisionmaking problem It's increasingly clear that automating important decisions like this is causing a lot of harm while removing most forms of recourse available to those affected. Coupled with the way automated decisions are used to perform and then launder fraud on a massive scale, maybe we should target laws at the automation itself: Require decisio…
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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#469Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers. Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use servi…
The bullshit you had to go through is the reason why a lot of people believe in bitcoin even if communities like NN love to pretend there is no use case for crypto.
Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah we need strong anti-Kafka laws so that individuals can always find out what they've been "charged" with and that there always need to be an "appeal" process and businesses are strictly denied the ability to claim that they can't reveal their methods.
Listing the specific problem that led to a service denial could be helpful, but could be not. I bet that it's very rarely something like "You did , so we ban you according to the rule 3.6.4.2 of ToS". It could be something like: "The pattern of your activity is very similar to patterns of activity of 9823 known scam attacks". Or even more detailed: "8 out of 11 statistical models analyzing 982 parameters of your acti…
There's no need for the model weights and parameters. The probabilities output from a multilabel classification model would be entirely sufficient to tell what the model thought the user had done. It was trained on a category and it is claiming that the user is part of that category. That category should have a human description of what the corporate entity was looking for and that should be enough for some kind of arbiter to determine if the 'accused' was actually doing that or not. The question isn't what the model is doing, the question is if the person is a false positive or not, which should be able to be determined without any reference to the model at all. If the model is doing too many false positives then determining why the model is broken becomes the job of the corporation (ideally with some punitive financial damages as incentive).
Although I do think that the model weights and parameters should in some way be subpoenable so that the model can be 'compelled to testify' if someone has enough legal, technical and fiscal resources to sue the company.