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Poll: What is your primary operating system

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#461

Post by apgwoz »

sbuk wrote: post #455
apgwoz wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when did it become not OK to side with the FSF? This, (i.e. the "Hacker" News crowd) has really set a new low bar.

"Since when did it become not OK to side with the FSF?" I'm sorry, but when did it become obligatory to agree with your world view. You were down-voted presumably because your comment was fatuous. Being a 'hacker' is not synonymous to exclusively using F/LOSS. Ideological fallacies are just the same as all the other fallacies...

I don't think there is anything nice to say about your comment. You call me foolish for having an opinion you disagree with. Pot, say hello to kettle.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#462

Post by nosse »

sbuk wrote: post #396
nosse wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only OS that can do serious CAD. That's it. Would use linux if I could.

By "serious CAD", what do you mean?

Serious CAD could be for example: AutoCAD, Solid Edge, pro/e, Catia, microstation just to name few. ArchiCad doesn't fit my needs as it's practically only for visualizing buildings. Last time I tried VariCad it was unusable due to bugs. And Blender isn't a CAD.

I'm currently using Solid Edge.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#463

Post by bdunbar »

nosse wrote: post #374
grandalf wrote: post #329

I'm curious about those using Windows. I can see four main reasons to use it: - You are a "business type" and prefer some app/workflow that you are already familiar with and don't want to change. - You used to work at Microsoft and you know it way better than other OSes. - Your target userbase has strong Windows lock-in so it makes the best business sense to use it. - You are really into gaming and don't want to dual…

It's only OS that can do serious CAD. That's it. Would use linux if I could.

It was not that long ago that 'serious CAD' and 'Unix' went together like ham and eggs.

Then those pesky Windows computers got underfoot and that was all she wrote.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#464

Post by mikegerwitz »

deanproxy wrote: post #387
mikegerwitz wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is disappointing to see "GNU/Linux" comments consistently harassed. Consider the history. The GNU project was conceived in 1983 to create a full free (as in freedom) operating system. This operating system combined many different projects (for example, X), in addition to creating its own components. Before Linux, it had one troubled component - the GNU Hurd, which was its kernel. Torvalds developed Linux (the kern…

Mike, what type of computer do you own? Does it use Intel hardware? Maybe it was created by Dell or Lenovo or somebody else? When someone asks you what type of computer you own do you say "It's an Intel/Dell" or "It's an Intel/Lenovo"? Or would you just say "It's a Dell"?

The term "computer" encompasses a wide variety of components. Had I purchased a PC from some specific company, such as Dell, stating that I have a "Dell computer" would indeed be accurate (stating "I have a Dell" is not technically correct; Dell is a company, not a computer). In a similar since, saying I use "Gentoo", "Trisquel", "Ubuntu", "Arch", etc is accurate.

I built my PC using hardware I purchased separately. I do see your argument - if someone asks me "what type of computer do you own", I would not list each hardware component individually. The problem is - that question is terribly vague. What type of computer do I own? Well, it's classified as a PC. Generally, when someone asks that question, they are looking for a specific company name. When I respond that I built my own, that answers their question.

If someone asks "what type of processor", I would then respond "I use an AMD-based system". In that sense, if someone asked what kernel I use, I would respond "I use a Linux-based system" --- they were specific enough to inquire about a specific component, so I would respond in such a way that answers their question.

"What operating system do you use?" Technically, I use GNU, and to those who understand what GNU is, I respond just like that --- "GNU". For those who may be unfamiliar with GNU, I will state "GNU with Linux" --- the GNU operating system with the Linux kernel. If I used GNU with another kernel, it is still GNU. Linux is one component of my operating system.

That said my display server, window manager, text editor, etc are also all useful components of my operating system. I would not say I use "GNU/X/Xmonad/Vim", simply because that is not a distinction commonly requested. Perhaps one day, if Wayland becomes popular, "GNU/Linux/X" would be useful/necessary.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#465

Post by mikegerwitz »

deno wrote: post #353
mikegerwitz wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is disappointing to see "GNU/Linux" comments consistently harassed. Consider the history. The GNU project was conceived in 1983 to create a full free (as in freedom) operating system. This operating system combined many different projects (for example, X), in addition to creating its own components. Before Linux, it had one troubled component - the GNU Hurd, which was its kernel. Torvalds developed Linux (the kern…

It is what it is, history. Calling it GNU/Linux might have been appropriate when GNU was such a big part of the system. It isn’t any more. Linux, on the other hand, is the biggest open source project in existence. Saying those two are equal is ridiculous.

The argument is not about equality; Linux is by far much larger in nearly every regard than GNU is. The argument is toward correctness. No matter how small GNU is, "GNU" describes an entire operating system, which is comprised of many components, some maintained by GNU/FSF, others not.

Let's say that I released an operating system called "Mike OS", which used Linux, portions of GNU, etc. My only contribution to the operating system, aside from packaging, was a simple script to handle package management/configuration. Well, it's still "Mike OS".

I think much of the confusion comes from people thinking of GNU in terms of projects that the FSF personally maintains. As stated by http://www.gnu.org/: "GNU is a Unix-like operating system that is free software—it respects your freedom. You can install Linux-based versions of GNU which are entirely free software."

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#466

Post by janardanyri »

slowpoke wrote: post #458
janardanyri wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This IS clear to everyone; it's simply irrelevant. Life's not fair. We all have to deal with unfair problems. Emphasizing the unfairness of your problems only makes the FSF look less "idealistic as in principled" and more "idealistic as in naive." Relatedly, your most critical problem is not external, it's that the FSF is now associated more closely with non-issues like "GNU/Linux" nomenclature than solving serious p…

It's us hopeless dreamers that have built the world you say has no place for us. And we will continue to dream, and make our dreams reality, no matter how much you tell us we should accept defeat and just face the "reality of life", whatever that is. So no, we're not going to "suck it up", but we're going to press on, to make a better world for future generations.

Don't misread me as a visionless hack. I would never discourage dreaming. My point was not that you are thinking too big, but rather exactly the opposite: that the FSF so often gets caught up in trivial distractions.

"Suck it up" does not mean "accept defeat," it means to accept the blows that come with contesting the arena of ideas, and get serious about effectively pursuing your mission. You don't get to just pretend the arena of ideas doesn't exist.

Free software is an ideology, and as an ideology it badly needs a prophet, someone who can inspire reverence for the cause the way that Carl Sagan or Neil deGrasse Tyson can inspire reverence for science.

rms is wasting his influence. Just look at the primary GNU Project About page; it's a disaster of anxious dissembling, fussing over terminology, scolding people who only 95% agree with him, and taking pages and paaaaages to do it. That is not how you lead.

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea."

When the FSF has a message other than "the waves are choppy and all the boats are unsound so you better stay close to shore," maybe they'll find that people start listening.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#467

Post by RexRollman »

Danieru wrote: post #420
RexRollman wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me happy to know that someone here likes Unity, because I think it is horrible. But then again, my preferred GUI for Linux is Ratpoison and some Xterms.

Back in 11.04 I absolutely hated unity, but now Stockholm syndrome is setting in. When I go back to 'regular' desktops I find that I have to make a conscious effort to manage my windows. I now get annoyed if I have to move windows around. Unity appears to have altered my behaviour and I think the change is pretty nice.

Well, I will give Ubuntu another go when 12.04 LTS is released. Maybe I will take a shining to it.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#468

Post by deno »

mikegerwitz wrote: post #465
deno wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is what it is, history. Calling it GNU/Linux might have been appropriate when GNU was such a big part of the system. It isn’t any more. Linux, on the other hand, is the biggest open source project in existence. Saying those two are equal is ridiculous.

The argument is not about equality; Linux is by far much larger in nearly every regard than GNU is. The argument is toward correctness . No matter how small GNU is, "GNU" describes an entire operating system, which is comprised of many components, some maintained by GNU/FSF, others not. Let's say that I released an operating system called "Mike OS", which used Linux, portions of GNU, etc. My only contribution to the…

No. GNU + Linux does not make an operating system. That’s a lie. In any modern distribution GNU packages are just optional components. They fit in a larger framework that makes an operating system, just like everything else. Stallman’s threshold for GNU/* is apparently just linking against glibc.

When GNU makes an actual distro, they can call it GNU/Linux.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#469

Post by kaolinite »

rbarooah wrote: post #445
randallsquared wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did mention those benefits in passing: "for excellent reasons involving security and malware". I don't disagree that this can provide those benefits; I just don't feel that they're worth the cost to me, personally. Also, I don't have any notion of how they could provide what I and other technically savvy people want and what the main base of computer users need at the same time.

The only thing you seem to be saying you want is to be free from the fear of unintended negative consequences of code signing. It's tautological that nobody can both provide something and freedom from the fear of the unintended consequences of that same thing simultaneously. On the other hand, since the only way to judge the trustworthiness of code is to know its provenance, I don't see how we can avoid some kind of…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the package managers of all popular Linux distros (except for Arch Linux, who are moving to bring it in soon) have had code signing for years now. It's not decentralised however the package management system isn't either.

Re: Poll: What is your primary operating system

#470

Post by yangyang »

apgwoz wrote: post #448
yangyang wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run the same. That - plus tmux, Emacs and Chromium - is just about perfect. If I wasn't tied to Lightroom for photography I'd get rid of the mac.

Have you tried darktable? It's definitely not Lightroom, but it's getting better and better all the time.

Interesting, I will take a look, thanks.

The trouble with digital photography apps is the lock-in - I've got tens of thousands of photos processed with LR, so I'm basically stuck with it. Glad that I didn't go with Aperture - at least I have two platforms to choose from rather than one.

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