A suicide crisis among veterinarians • Hacker News Board

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#461

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 3:50 AM UTC

yuhaj wrote: post #460

michaelmrose wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smarter countries make education affordable instead of a government sponsored bonanza for the financial class leading to greater supply of vets who haven't had to front load their life with 200-400k in debt to reach the starting line of their profession. This leads to more supply per capita in theory and in fact. Having enough supply means that when fuzzball junior has a health problem you don't have to choose betwee…

All that you are describing matches Sweden quite well. Still, my niece who lives there (and only barely counts as middle class, working at a burger joint in Stockholm) regularly rants about that she doesn't have the money to get care for her dog. Maybe she should just not have a dog. Will say: In theory it sounds great what you are saying, and for many other areas of life it really is great (I've heard lots of storri…

> Instead of crying for daddy/the government

This is a weird way to say work together to lay the groundwork for a more functional society. Accountability and recognition that are society is ridiculously poorly constructed are complementary not contradictory. It's humorous that you use as an anecdote your "barely middle class" niece and her complaints devoid of context whereas someone working at a burger joint here might not be able to afford to live inside. Over here she would probably either work a second job or her and her pup would live in her car.

The biggest first step towards sanity would be no longer issuing government backed loans for 400k, making pricing requirements and capacity goals based on prior performance to qualify for one thin dime. They might find the will to fire some of the useless expensive staff that aren't actually teaching kids. do a lot of the basic crap inexpensively online, and kick sports to the curb.

Currently we live in a completely broken market that is literally cause by the distortion of uncle Sam's unlimited funds on the educational market with no concurrent regulation to keep it from blowing everything up. The result of a minority of rich fuckers crying to big daddy government.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#462

Post by yuhaj » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 8:30 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #461

yuhaj wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that you are describing matches Sweden quite well. Still, my niece who lives there (and only barely counts as middle class, working at a burger joint in Stockholm) regularly rants about that she doesn't have the money to get care for her dog. Maybe she should just not have a dog. Will say: In theory it sounds great what you are saying, and for many other areas of life it really is great (I've heard lots of storri…

> Instead of crying for daddy/the government This is a weird way to say work together to lay the groundwork for a more functional society. Accountability and recognition that are society is ridiculously poorly constructed are complementary not contradictory. It's humorous that you use as an anecdote your "barely middle class" niece and her complaints devoid of context whereas someone working at a burger joint here mi…

> > Instead of crying for daddy/the government

> This is a weird way to say work together to lay the groundwork for a more functional society.

I see where you are coming from. You don't need to convince me that the U.S. society with its bizarre incentives is deeply broken. I'm all for strong societal support.

But you also need to realize that offloading lots of responsibility to the government (and thereby the rest of society) has real drawbacks. Sadly many people either take advantage of it (in a bad way) or are just so careless that it just leads to overall worse outcomes. That needs to be acknowledged if you want to discuss fundamental rules for a more functional society. We can't ignore those effects.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#463

Post by michaelmrose » Mon, Oct 23, 2023, 8:56 PM UTC

yuhaj wrote: post #462

michaelmrose wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of crying for daddy/the government This is a weird way to say work together to lay the groundwork for a more functional society. Accountability and recognition that are society is ridiculously poorly constructed are complementary not contradictory. It's humorous that you use as an anecdote your "barely middle class" niece and her complaints devoid of context whereas someone working at a burger joint here mi…

> > Instead of crying for daddy/the government > This is a weird way to say work together to lay the groundwork for a more functional society. I see where you are coming from. You don't need to convince me that the U.S. society with its bizarre incentives is deeply broken. I'm all for strong societal support. But you also need to realize that offloading lots of responsibility to the government (and thereby the rest o…

I again was never suggesting societal support for veterinary care. I was suggesting we fix our broken educational system. You mention that offloading responsibility to the government has real drawbacks. We are already experiencing those drawbacks. Again empowering people to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars of uncle sams money distorts the educational market and massive debt beyond what is profitable is hurting our supply of vets which is directly bearing on the cost of service.

If food could only be purchased with food stamps and there was societal pressure to offer more and more money indefinitely even if for all the best reasons one would soon find that a can of corn cost $12. Any complaints about regulating grocery stores in such a broken market entirely miss the point. There was never a functional market in that instance to protect. We should either stop pouring in billions or we should put stipulations on performance and price. Doing nothing until the can of corn is $15 doesn't seem tenable.