The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#461

Post by bombcar » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:16 PM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #184

diogenes4 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is that specific definition? It seems in many cases the term is used to AVOID being pinned to any specific definition.

Affordable housing is defined by the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) as housing that does not require a household to spend more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs. For rental housing, these costs include monthly rent and utility payments; for owner-occupied housing, these costs include mortgage payments and additional expenses associated with homeownership. A household…

That's explicitly the problem with the definition.

You can "solve" the equation by reducing housing costs, but it is also possible that the "problem" isn't housing costs per se but wage depression, and that the "real" solution is to fix the gross monthly income.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#462

Post by jklinger410 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

America has commodified every aspect of itself, turning everything into a market. Houses should have strict regulation around who can own them (ie fewer investment schemes), and the fed should have anti-NIMBY laws at a federal level.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#463

Post by chabes » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

I’m having a difficult time finding any mention of rental markets and their impact on housing in the article, as well as the comments here.

Seems like a big part of the context is missing from the discussion.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#464

Post by gadders » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

>>Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird conclusion to draw.

Who do you think the houses are being rented to? If there is an excess of demand, then it will push up prices or rents or both.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#465

Post by bombcar » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #395

jmclnx wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most Metro areas do not have enough affordable housing. Not only that, the definition of "affordable housing" is skewed. In the big metro area near me, "affordable housing" means 1500 to 2000 USD per month. That is not affordable to any normal person. To me, affordable rent should be below 1000 USD. You think this homeless crises is bad, wait 30 years and then you will see Cities with large slums like many "third" w…

ProPublica did a whole series on one of the larger "Cash for your house" type businesses. It seems they're really trying to extract cheap homes from distressed sellers with pressure tactics[0][1][2][3] [0]: https://www.propublica.org/article/ugly-truth-behind-we-buy-... [1]: https://www.propublica.org/article/behind-the-scenes-of-we-b... [2]: https://www.propublica.org/article/state-federal-laws-do-lit... [3]: https:…

The other side of this "scam" is that people are being sold how to "get rich quick" in real estate for $5k seminars (which boil down to "offer people 30% below market value and hope you get people who are dumb/desperate enough to sell").

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#466

Post by jlangenauer » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

Ajedi32 wrote: post #437

User23 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> build the affordable housing people actually want. And the unspeakable little problem that people don't want to live around the people who will be living in the affordable housing people actually want. Hence, NIMBY.

This is an interesting point. So the housing problem is (at least partially) a crime problem? Because I don't think there's anything that makes low income housing _inherently_ unpleasant to live next to; it's more a question of how the people who live there tend to conduct themselves, and to what extent that behavior is tolerated by the local authorities. I don't often see people complaining about living next to affo…

It's not even a "crime problem". It's much more often people expecting their class prejudices to be embodied in the built environment, so that working class/poor/immigrant folks - which has nothing to do with crime, I hasten to add - are not defiling their beautiful suburb.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#467

Post by jklinger410 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

c_crank wrote: post #214

fifticon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why the Robin Hood issue is never a problem when money is moved in the opposite direction :-)

Did anyone force all those students to take student loans?

They absolutely did. And once you realize that, you will have reached a new level of emotional and intellectual maturity.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#468

Post by buttercraft » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

colonelpopcorn wrote: post #45

somewhereoutth wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not supply and demand for houses - there are plenty enough to go around (though often in the wrong place). The issue is that a sizeable underclass is being created that have no wealth, not least because what wealth they did have has been funnelled to the very wealthy. For example, medical bills. For example student loans. For example zero interest rates with zero wage inflation meaning accommodation cost…

Pretty sure the under class is by design. Anyone who's ever used the phrase "real job" believes in the necessary existence of an under class.

Maybe, but someone once told me that I don't have a "real job" because I sit at a desk all day. And their perception didn't change when I told them I have a standing desk.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#469

Post by lotsoweiners » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #440

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

What specific government policy is causing developers to only build $2k+/mo rentals? You can't just vaguely say "government" is at fault without connecting the dots. This seems more like the market's fault. If homes in a particular area are going for $2k/mo, then that's what they are going for. If this is the government's fault, are you proposing price controls?

I think the bigger problem is that low income projects don’t “pencil out” a lot of the time. A city can step in and say some percentage of new buildings needs to be for low income but if they get too aggressive then developers will just choose to build elsewhere.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#470

Post by etc-hosts » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #307

gymbeaux wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem to more or less recognize why utilities like electricity and water should be regulated and government-run/non-profit, but why doesn’t that same attitude apply to housing? Housing is at least/more important than access to electricity and potable water yet we rely on companies like KB Home to build housing for this country. They will build as long as it’s good for business, and stop building as long as it’s…

The only reason they're regulated is because of logistical and permitting issues. Not because they're special for any other reason. If there was private competition for delivering water it might even be cheaper.

I tried to find an example of a water system in America that posted cheaper rates after being privatized. I could not. I found a couple of examples of complete disaster though.

Do you have any examples I can read about?