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Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

economist.com

461–470 of 609 posts

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#461
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be actually a nice policy: only allow buybacks using taxed profits. Unfortunately, it's not there yet

Why would that be a good idea?

Lots of corporate tax code is about taxing the money flows from the company to the physical persons. Somehow buybacks weren't taxed until recently.

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#462
About the only "successful" privatisation in the UK was of telecoms.

The main infrastructure company that operates country wide (OpenReach) are heavily regulated by how much they can charge for last mile termination. So that means there's a floor to how cheap services can be, but gives wiggle room for charging more in return for better customer service (e.g. Zen, AAISP). I pay £53 a month, with no yearly price increases, for 900/100 FTTP - which is still pretty pricey compared to other places in Europe, but from what I've seen of the likes of Comcast in the US, is pretty decent. No data caps either.

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#463
post #164
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even simpler than that. All of these privatized entities are incredibly efficient... at extracting profits from the public. Of course their goal is to extract profits. And you don't extract profits from a rail line by offering the best service. Bonus points if you can convince the government to bail you out and provide some extra cash.

Isn't that the whole point of privatisation? By introducing a profit maximisation goal you (supposedly) create a more efficient operation. I've worked in both the public and the private sector and can definitely understand the argument. In my government job it was way easier to slack off and no-one really cared about the results. There was no actual pressure from above to hit targets. You had your budget and it didn'…

> I've worked in both the public and the private sector and can definitely understand the argument. In my government job it was way easier to slack off and no-one really cared about the results. There was no actual pressure from above to hit targets. You had your budget and it didn't really matter what you produced. Not hitting deadlines was no big deal.

Cuz that never happens in the private sector, lol. Guess where I'm at now...

There was a week while consulting pre-COVID I tried to see how many hours of Skyrim I could play on Switch, both in the office and remotely. I got to about 11.

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#464
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals have the instinct to shit in front of you and not feel the slightest discomfort doing so too. Should we all start shitting in front of each other to more closely align our behavior to animal instincts?

Who am I to tell you what to do?

You heard the man, let's shit where we please.

I nominate his doorstep, since who is he to tell us where to poop?

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#465
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that even if one government were able to fix the oversight issue, its hard to see how subsequent governments can be prevented from ripping up the oversight (e.g. under the rubric of 'removing red tape'). Even if you look at the most likely incoming government, they are reluctant to get rid of the water companies due to cost. Perhaps what is needed is some mechanism whereby the threat of re-nationalisat…

It is a problem largely created by granting them property rights instead of franchises or operating agreements. In a democracy we can never remove the risk of the next government messing it up, but as long as they grant time limited or restricted contracts the opportunity for reversal is there. Which, incidentally, the cynic in me would suggest is the reason for why e.g. the water privatisation was done the way it wa…

They are both ridiculous propositions. There cannot be any meaningful competition where 99% of the involved activity is effectively fixed (water pipes and plants, rail tracks, rolling stock, even the ticketing system now). It's all an ideological play supported by big money.

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#466
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cutting corners and costs e.g. shutting ticket offices, doing just enough to barely offer the service. It's not like your passengers have any sensible alternative. If that doesn't do it then you can also load the company up with debt and pay yourself a nice dividend until rates rise.

> shutting ticket offices Why should I pay higher prices/taxes to keep ticket offices 90% of the country and increasing don't use open? International Airlines finished moving to e-ticketing 15 years ago

It could possibly be achieved here if our prices weren't so arcane and difficult to understand. There's tickets you can't get from the machines etc. There was a photo yesterday of a queue of 10 odd people waiting next to 4 idle ticket machines. It's solvable but nobody seems interested in actually doing it, presumably because it costs money to fix. International Airlines I assume gained some competitive edge by that move, there is no competition in a lot of our privatized industries so no real incentive to do anything but the bare minimum.

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#467
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even simpler than that. All of these privatized entities are incredibly efficient... at extracting profits from the public. Of course their goal is to extract profits. And you don't extract profits from a rail line by offering the best service. Bonus points if you can convince the government to bail you out and provide some extra cash.

Yeah exactly. In fact anyone who believes in markets should laugh in the face of private natural monopolies as an obviously terrible idea. The UK structures water provision as regional monopolies. This should be a hilarious joke but it's the reality. You can't change water company without living in a different region. There is no effective market competition for water provision in the UK. We already rely on price cap…

Doesn't it go into dividends for the owners?

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#468
I know of a Dutch waste processor that got privatized but the municipalities that the plant serviced stayed the majority shareholders. As far as I know (my source, its former boss, surely is biased) this worked very well. It was a for-profit company, could pay competitive salaries, people got bonuses etc if they out-innovated expectations, but the majority of the profit landed at the municipalities, which also meant that if it did profitable but shitty stuff, they’d get forced to course correct.

I wonder why this isn’t a more common model. If a utility is effectively a regional monopoly, having said region’s governments be majority shareholders aligns pretty much all the incentives, no? And still helps keep stereotypical “civil servant” working culture out the door

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#469
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better question is, where do they keep finding such gullible lenders? That The Economist , the City of London's answer to Pravda , published this article at all is telling.

> That The Economist, the City of London's answer to Pravda, published this article at all is telling. Do you mean it's extremely left wing? Or pro-authoritarian capitalist? Or the most left-wing publication you can find in an otherwise capitalist group?

I'd assume they meant (generally) uncritically pro City of London corporations and the London influenced strain of economic liberalism which they represent.

But I do think it's a bit of hyperbole in a way, although I'm only tangentially familiar with the publication.

Re: Privatisation has been a costly failure in Britain

#470
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better question is, where do they keep finding such gullible lenders? That The Economist , the City of London's answer to Pravda , published this article at all is telling.

> That The Economist, the City of London's answer to Pravda, published this article at all is telling. Do you mean it's extremely left wing? Or pro-authoritarian capitalist? Or the most left-wing publication you can find in an otherwise capitalist group?

I wouldn’t read that much into it.

Pravda is both the Russian word for ‘truth’ (правда) and was/is a publication advancing the interests of the USSR/Russian state establishment.

The ‘economist’ implies a similar ‘truthfulness’ (it must be right about the economy if it’s an economist!) and advances the interests of the London financial establishment.

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