Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering • Hacker News Board

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#461

Post by ghostpepper » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:15 AM UTC

mcpherrinm wrote: post #424

Aeolun wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of us would have designed a better submarine I dunno. I would never go with wireless over cabled, certainly not as my primary steering method, and it sure as hell wouldn’t be the only method onboard to control the thing. Maybe it’s better if these things are build by paranoid instead of adventurous people?

People are latching onto the logitech controller, but I think it's low on my concerns list. Controllers are relatively robust, and they stated they had backups, and could surface without any control input by manually dumping the ballast. Much more concerning are the potential flaws in the carbon fiber hull, as disclosed during the David Lochridge lawsuit (mentioned in another thread), the rumoured lack of surface rad…

Just to nit pick, what good is an exit going to do at 12,000 feet?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#462

Post by toss1 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:16 AM UTC

brutusborn wrote: post #408

Aeolun wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d expect companies that sell these kinds of tours for 250k a pop to be vetted though? If it’s uncle bob in his garage I’d be fine with lack of regulation, but when he starts commercially selling his trips he’d need to pass safety standards.

No, you’d only expect that if you have authoritarian values. In a truly free world, people are allowed to make dumb, risky decisions.

No, it is not authoritarian to regulate things like safety for the general public.

It is a necessary component of a complex society.

The main distinction between a self-determined vs authoritarian govt is the independence or lack thereof of all of the govt and society's institutions, including he legislative, executive, & judicial branches of govt, and in general society the press, industry, academy, religious orgs, social orgs, sports, etc. In self-determined societies, these are all quite independent and have a balance of power. In an authoritarian society, the branches of govt and institutions of society are coerced to serve the executive(s) (dictator or oligarchs).

A little bit of regulation does not make a government authoritarian.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#463

Post by antonvs » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:16 AM UTC

throwawaylinux wrote: post #455

reaperman wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a difference between Jacques Cousteau building a janky submarine rig for himself vs. Creating a business model of selling tickets to random strangers on that janky submarine.

Is it really a good use of our tax money to have (usually equally incompetent) government bureaucrats chasing rich "eccentrics" around and policing how they hurt themselves? Department heads, and chiefs, and comptrollers and TPS reports and meetings to decide the meeting to define the committee to oversee efficiency standards, to go tell millionaires they can't ride in shonky submarines? Not using that on say schools…

The war on submarines isn't going to win itself. Oh wait, maybe it will.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#464

Post by prawn » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:17 AM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #356

proggy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. If they had encountered a program-destroying but non-catastrophic failure earlier on, it is possible we wouldn't be looking at one of the many horrific outcomes that this incident will likely resolve to. Looking at the accounts reported to date, the OceanGate engineering culture was basically non-…

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

And I can see how patrons might look at their $250k fee (or whatever it was) and assume that price signals an absolutely premium and safe product, where really the bulk of it just signals that it's a difficult, risky, remote and rare expedition.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#465

Post by sn41 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:17 AM UTC

detourdog wrote: post #384

Aeolun wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d expect companies that sell these kinds of tours for 250k a pop to be vetted though? If it’s uncle bob in his garage I’d be fine with lack of regulation, but when he starts commercially selling his trips he’d need to pass safety standards.

He is not selling the trips they are paying to be crew. This is such a needless story.

That doesn't absolve them of negligence. A crew hardly signs up to be killed.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#466

Post by lagolinguini » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:18 AM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #356

proggy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. If they had encountered a program-destroying but non-catastrophic failure earlier on, it is possible we wouldn't be looking at one of the many horrific outcomes that this incident will likely resolve to. Looking at the accounts reported to date, the OceanGate engineering culture was basically non-…

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

My concern with some of these endavours is the opportunity cost to rescue services. Obviously, there is no question that if anyone is in danger in a remote location we should try our best to rescue them, but the corollary is that as a responsible citizen you should avoid putting yourself in situations where others have to go to great lengths to rescue you if it can be avoided.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#467

Post by Filligree » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:18 AM UTC

flir wrote: post #230

randac wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also using close to $1m in fuel per trip (according to the CEO), not that it changes your point

Not doubting you, but how is that possible? (A quick, unverified Google throws back "A standard Panamax containership has operational costs of about $9 million per year")

Those use cheap diesel.

What sort of fuel do you use underwater?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#468

Post by greiskul » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:20 AM UTC

Osiris wrote: post #425

fasthands9 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not really how the government operates. If this was operating at scale the government would absolutely be involved. You can't just run cruise ship operations and advertising without government involvement. I dont see how this is any different. Perhaps you personally have a "so be it" libertarian view but thats not the view the government takes.

It’s international waters. What “government” are you referring to?

Any ship needs to fly the flag of a country. They do so by registering with a country, following the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. By doing so, the ship has to follow the laws of the registered country.

If a ship or submarine does not register to any country, I think most coast guards will assume it to be pirates or drug smugglers. And they will probably surrender and arrest anyone on board or sink you if it comes to that.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#469

Post by _ea1k » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:21 AM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #421

_ea1k wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm not convinced this is in any way related to the issues. I'm far more concerned with the system that such a controller was plugged into than the controller itself. Commercial off the shelf pc? What kind of redundancy? How was power and power backup managed?

It wasn't plugged in. It was a bluetooth controller.

I saw a video about that earlier. I think that part surprised me more than anything else. I was also surprised at just how close they would come to objects.

It sounds like the screens could be used as backup control mechanisms, but I wonder how much time they'd lose making that transition.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#470

Post by class3shock » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 2:21 AM UTC

askvictor wrote: post #266

nycdotnet wrote: post #110

With all the talk about failure modes of carbon fiber, the scariest part of this article is the photo of the display and light held up by screws drilled into the side of the pressure vessel.

Also, why are they using carbon fiber and titanium? Genuine question - I would have thought that being light weight isn't a particular advantage for submersibles.

It's probably less about being light weight and more about high yield strength.