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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#461

Post by nullc »

marcinzm wrote: post #310
bjornsing wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart broke. I wept because of the cruelty. But I also wept because I helped create the system that could do this to someone." I’m a bit hesitant to say this out loud, but… you can only cry over this “betrayal”, “mistreatment” and “cruelty” if you have lived a very protected life.

To me it looks like both sides are acting very emotional over the situation and using very loaded language to push their agendas forward. I almost feel the author is using discomfort even more as a weapon than the person who originally complained.

Which appears to be one of the underlying cultural flaws in the community to begin with. "Everyone sucks here" is a common situation because bad behavior is often a product of bad project culture.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#462

Post by lost_tourist »

bybybyby wrote: post #238
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally not a fan of the way people go about D&I, but the fact JeanHeyd has brought up the problem before makes it more pertinent. Whoever on the Rust team made the decision to reach out and downgrade JeanHeyd's talk seems extremely incompetent. Optics matter a lot here and a large portion of leadership roles is optics. It's careless to not take context into account, like the recent history of poor Rust-related…

[flagged]

I think Musk is good at choose great lieutenants who believe in his vision. As a person he has turned into an awful individual. Lots of awful individuals have been great at business and running corps. I don't actually think he's all that talented as a day-to-day CEO

Re: Why I Left Rust

#463

Post by nullc »

phpisthebest wrote: post #429
jrsj wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course now that the people who wrote the CoC aren’t even following it we know that was really just a political tool

[flagged]

You don't normally needs a CoC to do the right thing, you need a CoC to justify doing the wrong thing.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#464

Post by KerrAvon »

lyu07282 wrote: post #149
indy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

I thought "rust culture" came out of this sort of super SJW/woke culture of mozilla? Nothing against that sort of mindset in theory, but it sometimes leads to a certain irrational hypersensitive intolerant mob behavior and authoritarian/anti democratic tendencies. There was also the recent easily preventable drama [1] around the trademark guidelines some people left rust over. I don't really find any of this drama co…

“SJW/woke” as an epithet is a right wing trope. Can we not do this please?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#465

Post by epistasis »

For completely unrelated reasons, I got into Rust this week again for the first time in years. I had to write a small bit of code that went really fast, but have sworn off C. It was really really fun, and I want to write more rust! (Though I don't get to write much code these days)

I'm actually really glad to see this sort of stuff be aired in the community, and I hope it strengthens the Rust community and makes the language stronger. I really hope that Rust gets greater adoption. The syntax with lifetimes is a bit painful, but everything else is really amazing for making super fast code when needed.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#466

Post by laurels-marts »

Roark66 wrote: post #294

I was with you until this part: >It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation among Rust conference speakers. Rightly so, as both the Rust organization and the conferences had little to no Black representation. Am I the only one that considers such arbitrary "diversity enforcement policy" horribly racist? No organisation should be "called out for a lack of - insert-race-here- representation…

> How can intelligent people not see this kind of thinking leads to the worst of social divisions?

Intelligent people do see it. It’s typically people that have no actual direct value to contribute but still want to score points that focus on all kinds of secondary topics.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#467

Post by rgbgraph »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #433
rgbgraph wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, no kidding: https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/vxgzrl/changes_in_the... Mod response: > For all those wondering about removed comments, there was some trolling going on which was summarily removed by the mods. > Please avoid any trolling and/or drama seeking comments and remember our subreddit rules. "Trolling" on display in the archives of that thread: https://www.reveddit.com/v/rust/comments/vxgzrl/changes…

I've been involved with Software Development for over 20 years started with VB6 and some perl/python in 1998. I saw the "informal code of conduct" and it never worked. What really happened: many people were treating terribly and most of it was swept under the rug. CoC were created for valid and good reasons. I'm not defending the Rust community here, it seems childish to me. The past is not what you are trying to cla…

Full disclosure, I usually do not involve myself with large groups -- so my views are likely to be a bit more innocent/naive.

The past that I lived in was comprised of people you personally knew; not anonymous membership in a large organization or group, where you could never hope to know everyone on a personal level.

There was very little opportunity for people to be unchecked dicks to one another, because you saw everyone consistently and could easily notice when something was going on.

Perhaps this is an unsolved issue about scaling human communities?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#468

Post by LouisSayers »

brokenkebaby wrote: post #131
junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

>Rust members were "uncomfortable" with this purely technical viewpoint - not their behavior, personal beliefs, or even their demographic? Claim of "feeling uncomfortable" was invented to be a tool of political fighting which allows to declare something, or somebody as unacceptable, completely avoiding debates. As it's becoming generally normalized, it's absolutely logical that it spills into other fields of human in…

This is like a modern day version of "they're a witch!", with the towns people rallying behind to burn them at the stake.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#469

Post by Varqu »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

Never understood the childish fighting between languages, libraries within a language or as here different viewpoints.

I mean, it's good to discuss different viewpoints, but programming choices is a hill I would never want to die on.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#470

Post by epistasis »

neonsunset wrote: post #29

I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.

I really love Rust, and I'm very encouraged to see this "ideological posturing" happening in public.

There is a wide wide world out there, and just as having an easy to use crate system is important, so is having a large community. You don't get to a large community by being exclusive, but by being inclusive.

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