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My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

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Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#461

Post by phorkyas82 »

klibertp wrote: post #281
josephg wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And most devs hating on Java are using an IDE written mainly in Java (all the JetBrains ones): the irony of that one gives me the giggles. Guilty as charged! I hate using Java because everything written in java seems to blend into the same indistinguishable swamp of classes with meaningless names, full of methods that constantly find new and interesting ways to obscure what your program is actually trying to do. De…

Does anybody know where I can find a good, substantiated, critique of the common Java coding patterns, including on Android? This niche is such a huge mess that simply documenting all the bad things in a single codebase (along with explanation why they're bad) took me a month. It's tiring and mentally draining to do this: every other line of code you read makes you go "Why. Please, just tell me why anybody could ever…

Not a very recent one, but this "Kingdom of nouns" resonates deeply http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom...

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#462

Post by winrid »

fian wrote: post #354
cies wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad immutability breaks the quite-ubiquitous-in-JVM-land Bean spec (and I wonder what one was smoking before drawing that spec). I think having proper sum-types with pattern matching would have also made it a much better language.

Java has been around for a longish time. Around the early 2000's there was at least a perception that you should avoid creating too many objects as that carried performance overhead for construction and garbage collection. https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1495... Immutable objects often require you to construct a new object to store an updated value and garbage collect the now unused previous o…

I didn't say make everything immutable. I just mean that if you want an object to be mutable, you need to say so.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#463

Post by winternett »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #153

> My entire career is now technical debt, or the code has been deprecated. My fellow dev often laugh when I tell them that instead of looking at all the long dead techs that are not useful to me anymore, my way to feel good is to look back at all the long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn . And, geez, is the graveyard huge. > Java Applets were also a big thing once upon a time. They were slow, and having the c…

What is most funny to me in hindsight is how much I had to fight off warnings and offers to learn Macromedia/Flash development... I literally had tons of people who were only making $45k a year telling me I was a dinosaur while I was making $70k investing in PHP dev...

Fast forward to now and PHP jobs are paying over twice the old rate and grinding along while Flash is long dead and buried. Follow your instincts, not your friend's advice. :P

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#464

Post by JohnFen »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #153

> My entire career is now technical debt, or the code has been deprecated. My fellow dev often laugh when I tell them that instead of looking at all the long dead techs that are not useful to me anymore, my way to feel good is to look back at all the long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn . And, geez, is the graveyard huge. > Java Applets were also a big thing once upon a time. They were slow, and having the c…

> And most devs hating on Java are using an IDE written mainly in Java (all the JetBrains ones): the irony of that one gives me the giggles.

I'm not sure why this is a salient point. There's no contradiction in hating Java and using an IDE written in Java. Lots of people hate C, too, but that doesn't make it strange that they use lots of software written in it.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#465

Post by denton-scratch »

josephg wrote: post #222
TacticalCoder wrote: post #153

> My entire career is now technical debt, or the code has been deprecated. My fellow dev often laugh when I tell them that instead of looking at all the long dead techs that are not useful to me anymore, my way to feel good is to look back at all the long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn . And, geez, is the graveyard huge. > Java Applets were also a big thing once upon a time. They were slow, and having the c…

> And most devs hating on Java are using an IDE written mainly in Java (all the JetBrains ones): the irony of that one gives me the giggles. Guilty as charged! I hate using Java because everything written in java seems to blend into the same indistinguishable swamp of classes with meaningless names, full of methods that constantly find new and interesting ways to obscure what your program is actually trying to do. De…

> I think the problem is cultural, not technological.

I'm sure that's true. You don't have to write classes with names like DoubleFactoryFactory; nobody does that in other languages. It's a tribal thing.

What's amusing (to me) is that Java isn't actually object-oriented, because many of the core datatypes aren't objects.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#466

Post by arvinsim »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #34

Everyone one that has counter examples thinking they prove the opposite, are just not waiting long enough. All the kids think they will be young forever. Can't blame MS for new JS libraries every month, or a new language released every month. This web site is dedicated to people showing off things they created, which replace something that turns into debt, and in turn also become flavor of the month. Yes, biased old…

Seeing the cyclic nature of things after 12 years of programming, I am focusing on the solving the domain aspects of a problem rather than code.

I will leave that to juniors who probably appreciate doing the coding.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#467

Post by mathgladiator »

pkphilip wrote: post #447
mathgladiator wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn. this is how I currently feel about Kubernetes and docker. I'm having all sorts of fun with the JVM, a monolithic jar, and about 20 lines of shell script. I can deploy in 20 seconds without much fuss.

Absolutely. Java development is ridiculously easy compared to many of the alternatives.. in some senses, it is actually even easier to develop in than PHP especially since Java is statically compiled.

plus, it has super powers. For example, with Adama ( https://www.adama-platform.com/ ), my language translates to Java on the fly, compiles, and class loads to provide a new kind of serverless infrastructure.

The "cool" kids are building WebAssembly while the JVM has it all.

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#468

Post by froh »

temac wrote: post #85
froh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that are not Linux, but serviced by the Windows kernel's POSIX layer under WSL1. that's not how that works. wsl is a Linux kernel running under a hypervisor integrated with windows.

Wsl2 is how you say. WSL1 is a Linux syscall reimplementation in the NT kernel space.

I see and TIL.

Still said syscall reimplementation was not based off the old and long gone NT posix personality (just sayin' so I save face...)

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#469

Post by kragen »

revelio wrote: post #141
kragen wrote: post #53

a thing most of these have in common is that they're proprietary, so the users are dependent on the companies that own them for enhancements, bug fixes, and ports to new platforms. this is a recipe for wasting your time visual basic, asp, coldfusion, foxpro, activex, flash, and silverlight, windows ce, asp.net, webforms? proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, and pr…

Not very convincing. The world is full of abandoned open source projects and companies that maintain proprietary platforms near indefinitely. Angular 1 is dead, Python 2 is dead, Perl is dead, GTK 1-3 are dead, old KDE is dead, X11 is dying, but you can still buy supported versions of Delphi, COBOL and even VB6 is still somewhat maintained by MS [1]. ActiveX was killed by browsers (open source), the underlying propri…

it's not at all difficult to run code written for angular 1, python 2, gtk 2, gtk 3, or x11; you don't even have to port them, you can just run them, and i do every day. it doesn't even require any effort

contrast that to applications written for silverlight, activex, or flash

with respect to gtk 1, you sort of have a point, but gtk 2 was released in 02002, and it's usually not hard to port gtk 1 apps to gtk 2 (and almost all of them have already been ported). and i'm not sure what you mean about 'old kde'

free software licenses provide strong legal protections to users to do whatever is necessary to maintain and extend the software they depend on and share that with others, and in practice they do, and the consequence is that the hype cycle is much slower and less destructive

Re: My 20 year career is technical debt or deprecated

#470

Post by putnambr »

Nanana909 wrote: post #279
lopis wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My fellow dev often laugh when I tell them that instead of looking at all the long dead techs that are not useful to me anymore, my way to feel good is to look back at all the long dead techs that I didn't bother to learn. I share this sentiment. All my adult life I've been in contact with the "tech-anxious" kind of dev that needs to be up-to-date with all the new frameworks all the time. While I've entertained sev…

IMO an argument against this is that the benefit though is not in the new tech itself, but different design paradigms it exposes you to and thought patterns you learn. Even if Rust were to die off tomorrow I’d be happy I invested my time in getting familiar with it as I’ve learned quite a bit about memory management and ways to reason about it.

Paying attention to the design paradigms is truly the interesting aspect. The way you write code in a language isn't fixed or proscribed. You see evolution of languages/frameworks, influence between them, repeats of what one tech has tried and failed (sometimes the new tech tries again and succeeds). The great thing is you can take those learnings back to the language you're using! If you mess around with some Angular or RxJS front-end stuff, you can take that style to the back-end if you want. If you've seen benefit from strong typing on the back-end, you can add TypeScript to a front-end project. Rust and Kotlin have even influenced Java core libraries for the better.

By paying attention to the designs it's easier to figure out what's marketing-driven hype as well. For example, do I really need to jump onto the next serverless platform, or are they just repackaging and upselling AWS Compute resources? Can I accomplish the same thing as the latest edge computing platform by using service workers and a free CDN? Is Firebase Hosting basically a second interface for GCP Cloud Run?

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