Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of” • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#461

Post by dataflow » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:34 PM UTC

cogitoergofutuo wrote: post #453

dataflow wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe the loss society would suffer from editing "comprised of" in Wikipedia articles is actually comparable to what it would suffer if they discriminated against half the population on TV?

I can only speak for myself, but the actual phrase “comprised of” is the least interesting thing to discuss when it comes to this topic. I am fascinated by a single person taking up the cause of “correcting” the language of others based off of their personal linguistic aesthetic preference. I don’t see many people saying “I often have to stop at the words ‘comprised of’ and reevaluate the meaning of the sentence that…

But again, this isn't even about correcting others' language. People are fine to use whatever language that serves them personally well in their lives - but this isn't about that. It's about writing encyclopedia articles in a way that's best for their readers. Every comment I'm reading here so far seems to insist this is somehow personal toward the author and correcting them, whereas it really isn't.

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#462

Post by prerok » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #386

jzb wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to quote you back to you. "It’s also not really serverless to begin with, because at the end of the day code is being executed on a physical device that many of us might call a “server” [1] A critical mass of people have adopted the term serverless. Therefore, the term means whatever they want it to mean, right? No sense in swimming against the tide here, correct? Yes, words mean what people want them to mea…

Semi-related, it always bothered me that we use the term "wireless" for something that still has wires (just not between the endpoints). Though I don't object, or have a better alternative, and I get the logic of calling it wireless.

The better alternative is cordless, no? At least some products do use that (e.g. cordless mouse). Of course, wireless is now so widely used it might not make sense to fight it :)

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#463

Post by matteoraso » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

ezekiel68 wrote: post #414

I don't know the right solution to this problem, but I wish there were some kind of effective defense mechanism in open society against activist superminorities. Pedants tilting at windmills shouldn't be able to alter the cultural landscape this easily. I am aware that their problem and my problem are privileged "first-world problems". The seeds of the open society carry the germ of this pathology, I guess.

>I don't know the right solution to this problem, but I wish there were some kind of effective defense mechanism in open society against activist superminorities.

Wikipedia is nothing but a superminority making the website their playground, though[0]. If you get rid of the superminority, the website literally couldn't function. The inner workings of Wikipedia are actually a fascinating rabbit hole to fall into, but the takeaway is that this behaviour seems to be ingrained into human nature. Basically, the majority consume, a minority produces, and a minority of the minority produces a lot. You can see this in any participatory system as well, not just Wikipedia.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_...

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#464

Post by mrexroad » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

dixie_land wrote: post #314

cogitoergofutuo wrote: post #307

I love these one-person crusades against present reality. Words mean whatever a critical mass of people want them to mean. For example, the usage of the present tense here: "Composed of" and "consists of" are better alternatives. is incorrect. It should read: Composed of" and "consists of" were better alternatives. This thread is literally a clout ATM machine for a group comprised of pedants.

I could agree more! Irregardless of what words actually mean we should just use whatever we want.

Inconceivable!

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#465

Post by bbor » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #431

ezekiel68 wrote: post #414

I don't know the right solution to this problem, but I wish there were some kind of effective defense mechanism in open society against activist superminorities. Pedants tilting at windmills shouldn't be able to alter the cultural landscape this easily. I am aware that their problem and my problem are privileged "first-world problems". The seeds of the open society carry the germ of this pathology, I guess.

> some kind of effective defense mechanism in open society against activist superminorities. I'll be using comprised of more frequently. I was already a satisfied user, but now I'll continue with glee. Language changes and evolves to serve the purpose of communication. It doesn't care about rules or usage.

It is my firm belief that language is, at its core, comprised of usage and usage alone!

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#466

Post by havermeyer » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

jzb wrote: post #358

cogitoergofutuo wrote: post #307

I love these one-person crusades against present reality. Words mean whatever a critical mass of people want them to mean. For example, the usage of the present tense here: "Composed of" and "consists of" are better alternatives. is incorrect. It should read: Composed of" and "consists of" were better alternatives. This thread is literally a clout ATM machine for a group comprised of pedants.

Allow me to quote you back to you. "It’s also not really serverless to begin with, because at the end of the day code is being executed on a physical device that many of us might call a “server” [1] A critical mass of people have adopted the term serverless. Therefore, the term means whatever they want it to mean, right? No sense in swimming against the tide here, correct? Yes, words mean what people want them to mea…

I wish I could find the article I read a while ago on the history, but it reminds me of how "nauseous" ended up becoming synonymous with "nauseated."

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#467

Post by jerry1979 » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

gnulinux wrote: post #419

denton-scratch wrote: post #214

"Comprises" means "consists of". So "comprised of" means "consists of of". It's not just that some people dislike it; it's simply wrong. Whenever I come across the word "utilize" in WP, I change it to "use" (with the edit comment "Don't utilize utilize"). Nobody's ever reverted me for that. I think there is a proper use for the verb "utilize": it means "to render useful". But usually, it's just a substitute for "use"…

I know this is shocking to people but if a phrase is systematically used by native speakers, it is then part of the language. There is no notion of native speakers being systematically wrong in linguistics. It wouldn't make sense scientifically. In order to examine natural languages using the scientific method, linguists gather data (i.e. native speakers' spoken or written communication) and then analyze this (i.e. f…

Who are the native speakers in the case of Wikipedia?

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#468

Post by ulizzle » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

"As one who subscribes to the anti-comprised-of doctrine described above, I can tell you it triggers the same "what an idiot" neurons in us as "could of" and "could care less". If I can spare any readers that discomfort without hurting anyone else, why wouldn't I?"

There are not enough eyeballs in the world. This dude can't even use colons and semi-colons correctly in his essay.

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#469

Post by 4ndrewl » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

jamiek88 wrote: post #426

kolinko wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Radio" would be a proper replacement for "wireless".

Funnily enough older people in England still call the radio ‘the wireless’!

And my grandad used to say exactly the same thing about wireless radios - 'why do they call it the wireless when it's full of wires!'

Re: Wikipedia user edits over 90k uses of “comprised of”

#470

Post by bbor » Sat, May 06, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

JW_00000 wrote: post #450

gnulinux wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is shocking to people but if a phrase is systematically used by native speakers, it is then part of the language. There is no notion of native speakers being systematically wrong in linguistics. It wouldn't make sense scientifically. In order to examine natural languages using the scientific method, linguists gather data (i.e. native speakers' spoken or written communication) and then analyze this (i.e. f…

OK, but does that mean the phrase should be used as such in an encyclopedia? For instance, the word "biweekly" now means both "once every two weeks" and "twice per week". I don't mind usage of that word for those two meanings. Obviously, linguists can gather data and analyze how it's being used. They may conclude that one meaning was more favored 50 years ago and the other meaning is now. But when I'm reading an ency…

Does “utilize” really lead to such ambiguities? Or “comprised of”? I’d be really surprised… maybe in rare cases? I haven’t read the entire linked manifesto so maybe he has some examples!