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What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

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Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#461

Post by zo1 »

vkou wrote: post #347
nemo44x wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is unique for a few reasons: 1) Very insulated culture with nearly no immigration coupled with low birth rates. 2) They build houses very differently. They aren't generally made to last centuries if taken care of and renovated. The strategy is to build small units cheaply and tare down after 2- years. It's like Ikea for homes. 3) I agree, depopulation is a problem. We really need to incentivize middle and upper…

> 3) I agree, depopulation is a problem. We really need to incentivize middle and upper middle class people to have large families. No, what we need to do is figure out how to run our economies without pyramid-scheme population growth. Human societies have managed to do this sort of thing for centuries, before the industrial revolution, and then the green revolution ballooned our population. Surely, we can turn some…

The first thing we need to do, in my opinion, is tackle inflation by getting government out of the picture. I think inflation is the root cause of a large chunk of what we don't like and complain about with capitalism.

I have yet to get a valid reason as to why inflation is an inherent and necessary property without circular reasoning. The market will always reach some equilibrium, even with a fixed money supply.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#462

Post by hutzlibu »

badpun wrote: post #454
hutzlibu wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm honestly sick of this whining about rent in top-tier areas. Living there is a luxury" Hm, I am quite sure, that even luxury areas need garbage people. If the top income people are having problems living there, how is that socially sustainable at all? Or is the solution, that the peasants all have to commute 2h plus every day?

The solution is to pay garbage people much more than in cheaper areas.

More than university graduates like OP?

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#463

Post by toyg »

badpun wrote: post #441
BossingAround wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata, but the vast majority of European new hires I'm seeing in my team are from Spain (though they are Spanish) and work remotely from mid-sized cities or islands (like Mallorca). It feels like Central Europe is slowly losing steam while Spain is, unexpectedly, gaining some steam.

Central European salaries are getting high enough to not make remote work for abroad companies as atractive. $80k+ per year is becoming more and more common for Seniors in Poland.

Central Europe is also under the renewed threat of Russian invasion. I know a few businesses that were hit by Herr Putin's latest adventure.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#464

Post by secondcoming »

ricardobayes wrote: post #396
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

If you are able to work remotely, Spain is fantastic at the moment. Relatively low real estate rent/purchase prices. You can still get a nice 3 bedroom house with a pool under 200k by the Mediterranean sea (of course well, not in Marbella). There are some surprisingly high-tech jobs locally as well, the space industry is booming right now. Lots of programming jobs in Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia even if you don't s…

What are the salaries and taxes like?

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#465

Post by bandrami »

robocat wrote: post #385
bandrami wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone I knew could afford to buy a house on a single salary when 28-30 Did you grow up in 1958? Because that's the last time that was true.

Depends on where they were. For example #15: Clarksville, Tennessee: Median home value: $172,700, Median household income: $58,853 https://www.businessinsider.com/best-places-to-buy-a-home-un...

Meaning median individual income is ~$29K, which is not enough to afford a $172K house on one salary.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#466

Post by danielrpa »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #228
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

As a newcomer you can't live (properly) in a top tier city in any major Western country that I can think of unless you manage to accumulate significant wealth. I doubt that "every" city in Germany has this problem, but I believe you that all of the ones that I could name as a non-German do. The 50th percentile Brit can't afford to live in London. Nottingham, well that's easy. It's the same everywhere.

In the US it's still possible to work as a Software Engineer in major cities and buy property. Great Atlanta/Houston aren't exactly dirt cheap, but you can buy a decent house by paying less 2500/month mortgage (not hard on a Software Engineer salary). In the Midwest there are even more affordable cities.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#467

Post by bandrami »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #400
bandrami wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rich get richer ... and the poor get poorer I mean, what's actually happening is that the rich get richer and the poor also get richer but at a slower rate > growing wealth inequality leads to all sorts of other dysfunction including increased crime No, we have significantly higher inequality than the 1990s and significantly lower crime. So the opposite of what you said.

> No, we have significantly higher inequality than the 1990s and significantly lower crime. I wonder how much of that is due to removing lead from fuel?

I thought that until the uptick in homicides of the past few years, since there wasn't an increase in lead at the start of the 21st century. I imagine it has more to do with incarcerating nearly 2% of the population, unfortunately.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#468

Post by justincormack »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #345
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

> And it's not just Munich. Every city in Germany has this problem. That's nonsense. Larger Munich is the most expensive place to live in Germany (except for the island of Sylt), and has been for many years, but is still nowhere near London, NYC, or SF. In contrast, you can purchase entire houses in abandoned (but well connected) places in east Germany for as little as 10k EUR.

There were reports last year that per square meter Munich is more expensive for property than London (but less than Paris) https://www.tellerreport.com/business/2022-08-26-real-estate... - that probably covers a range of prices of course, and other costs are lower.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#469

Post by oaw-bct-ar-bamf »

nemo44x wrote: post #172
Bellend wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we are in a time where everyone is milking the 90s-20s real estate bubble and no one wants to be first to fold. Internationally, not just on a per country basis. As soon as say, French real estate collapses (or UK or USA or Germany etc), the whole rotten castle of cards will fold as well. If it doesn't you can enjoy the expensive property, but you won't be eating farmed foods, won't be in a clean environmen…

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

Why would it collapse? Nobody is able to afford to buy/live in your property anymore.

If you don‘t find buyers/renters how will you manage to pay off your investment credit you took out at 95%credit rate while only covering contract signing fees at ~1% interest with 10year stable interest.

Once interest is adjusted after 10years to 4-5% you (property owner that can’t find any high paying renters) are fucked

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#470

Post by Broken_Hippo »

hutzlibu wrote: post #462
badpun wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to pay garbage people much more than in cheaper areas.

More than university graduates like OP?

You should pay enough to live in the area you work in. If that means that the jobs pay more than someone that needs the degree to work in their field, the person with the degree is being underpaid as well.

FWIW: Some of the garbage men, janitors, retail employees, and others working in "unskilled" jobs likely have degrees too. This is even more likely if they are immigrants.

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