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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

461–470 of 514 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#461

The article has a point, but there's no proof for cause & effect. A completely different explanation could be that our societies are so advanced by now that we can finally listen to mental illnesses and take them seriously - while in the past people just had to 'function', no matter what.

It could be that yes we're finally just now listening, but that doesn't explain the crazy spike in self harm

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#463
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to be annoying, but I genuinely don't understand what you mean by huge expectations of "having it all" for women (at least insofar as it relates to any trend starting ~2012, when the large growth in depression and self-harm among teen girls seems to have started). The only "revocation of rights" I can think of would be Dobbs - which also does not fit the trend (see my response to the other comment). If…

> The only "revocation of rights" I can think of would be Dobbs - which also does not fit the trend (see my response to the other comment). Dobbs didn't just happen. It took decades to take those rights away from women, and there was incremental (anti)progress along the way. In those decades, a massive political project was created specifically to message that women who get abortions (a lifesaving medical procedure)…

Even beyond Women in the USA, amongst my friends in Canada, where to me at least the status quo on abortion seems quite safe, they very clearly feel extremely on edge about it.

Existing in the state of being where you're constantly feeling under pressure and attack that your rights may be taken away at any moment, I dunno, maybe that's stressful! If I can sense this tension from my Canadian women friends who are stressed just being adjacent to USA news, I'm not at all surprised that American women would be feeling even more stressed and depressed about the situation.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#464
post #296

I'm a father of teen kids, teacher and educator. I don't think that there is a single reason here. All mentioned things contribute – social media pressure, climate problems, economical crisis etc. But I'd like to add another one – declining quality of education. I see increasing number of teens depressed because they don't have teachers and their education isn't good enough for jobs they'd like to get in future. And…

I'm not sure you can blame problems such as climate change, economic issues -- every generation had its own existential crisis: WW2, Korea, Vietnam, numerous recessions and until 1990, recent generations lived under the specter of the atom bomb. I think it's social media, that's what's really changed: Every single teenager is now comparing themselves against every other kid in the world instead of just their local pe…

I agree that social media is a huge factor, but I suspect other generations dealing with the crises you mentioned had high rates of mental illness as well, but it wasn't tracked, or wasn't tracked the same way, or there were different but equally serious manifestations of it than self-harm and suicide.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you get an unskilled immigrant who has his back against the wall. I read an article claiming this is where teen jobs went, not sure how well supported it is.

It is an well-known secret that the largest and most successful farm in my area extensively uses illegal immigrants for labor. They say that citizens are too unreliable and unproductive for them to be profitable.

How do you know they’re illegal? There’s legal immigrants that get bussed in from Mexico to all the corners of the country for seasonal labor. Just cuz they’re immigrants doesn’t mean their illegal. Of course they could be. But I’m not sure I’d trust the rumor mill to know the difference.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>base my personality on it Your words, not gp. A part-time job as a teen helps you navigate and integrate into society. Part-time helps you get out of your bubble and interact with the public, who may be different to your upbringing. It is immediately clear to me who has had a job as a teen (read: service job), and who has not in my experience. This may be a form of reverse-classism on my part, but learning to sweep…

> While I was working 10h/w during high school, I was also making DOOM wads and learning BSP algo in my extremely ample free time. I don't recall having what I would call "ample" spare time in high school. I recall being at school 8:30 to 4 every day, then a few hours of homework daily and/or exam prep for the endless exams ("don't fail" they said, "or you'll never go to university and your life is ruined forever!").…

Here's the difference: I was a mediocre student who did zero exam prep. I did homework in the classes I cared about and didn't in the ones I did not in high school. My GPA was mediocre, B-esque, high SATs, only extracurricular was Computer Club. I spent my time reading books and fucking off driving all over creation to go dumpster diving to slake my hunger for computer parts.

I did not have a "portfolio". I had a bunch of weak programming experience from books I checked out from the library and a compiler I stole from my high school because I wanted to program so badly. (1998~, open source compilers existed but to my eyes I wanted Borland Turbo C++) Yea that's right I copied that floppy! :D Imagine a time when you had to BUY compilers!!

I wrote an entrance essay that I used for all four of my college applications about how computer games were the next huge entertainment media, replacing movies. I didn't min max anything because I didn't care / had no idea / was stupid. I was accepted at all of them, Case Western Reserve, Drexel, Rutgers, Rowan. I went to a non-ivy competitive engineering school in my area, which I'm repeatedly discovering was a very good computer science program.

I went on to a fruitful research career for 10y, and now industry.

Maybe I'm telling on myself that somehow I have incredible luck or privilege, since compared to you I sound like a failure. I am the first person to go to college in my family, and worked while I was in college as well as paid internship at a research university.

The only skill I had was doing the thing directly in front of me and keeping my eyes on the next thing. The jobs I had were nothing special: a dogsbody at a deli, delivering newspapers, Toys R Us, Staples, Dominos Pizza.

Every job taught me something different: - something can go wrong and it not be your fault - if you have time to lean you have time to clean - some jobs are just fighting entropy, and that's normal (note: this is in service of bigger goals, every time) - everyone is happy to see the pizza guy

I'm not sure how old you are, I'm ~40, so it is entirely possible we have different eras. Maybe it's possible to over optimize, also maybe I'm too old for this discussion. Anecdotes aren't data.

In short, if you've never cleaned a toilet that isn't yours, it is less likely I will trust you.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#467
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you can blame problems such as climate change, economic issues -- every generation had its own existential crisis: WW2, Korea, Vietnam, numerous recessions and until 1990, recent generations lived under the specter of the atom bomb. I think it's social media, that's what's really changed: Every single teenager is now comparing themselves against every other kid in the world instead of just their local pe…

I think social media - which is not so much about media but about performative competition - is just part of the problem. Reality for kids seems so much more competitive and ruthless in every way. And there are so few resources available to them to help them deal with it. At the same time opportunities are shrinking and pressure to perform is increasing. It's not enough to be adequate, you have to be outstanding in l…

It's not about reality for kids, it's for everyone. It's not enough to be a good teacher any more, parents expect you to be on Veritasium level of engagement in every single moment. If services from locksmith is used, LockPickingLawyer is expected all around the world. Every doctor is compared to Dr Varshavski and anything less is not good enough. And the list goes on ...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also been a corresponding dramatic drop in the number of teens who have had any sort of job. Not many things are as fulfilling as doing a job and getting paid for it. I remember when I realized I was making enough money that I could pay all my bills and no longer needed anything from my dad. It felt really good. For me that was the dividing line between being a child and an adult.

It used to be good, but my guess is a modern kid, particularly a middle class one, doesn't get as much out of it. Minimum wage has stagnated, but also people these days have their eyes on internships that will secure a career. There's simply no point in pursuing burger-flipping if you can't find a way to hang around a law firm or a hedge fund, and those firms won't care at all that you worked hard in a menial job. Wh…

What high school kids are interning at hedge funds? Jobs like life guarding, painting, tradesman’s gopher, fast food, etc are still great jobs for kids to learn a work ethic and make some cash. Trying to kick start a career in high school is beyond silly for most kids.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#469
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you can blame problems such as climate change, economic issues -- every generation had its own existential crisis: WW2, Korea, Vietnam, numerous recessions and until 1990, recent generations lived under the specter of the atom bomb. I think it's social media, that's what's really changed: Every single teenager is now comparing themselves against every other kid in the world instead of just their local pe…

I think social media - which is not so much about media but about performative competition - is just part of the problem. Reality for kids seems so much more competitive and ruthless in every way. And there are so few resources available to them to help them deal with it. At the same time opportunities are shrinking and pressure to perform is increasing. It's not enough to be adequate, you have to be outstanding in l…

" and now the threat of AI."

Probably the icing on the cake for me, looking like no job prospect and potential for serious consequences ranging from mass scale disinformation to extinction.

We need to get our priorities straight as a species.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#470

(Seemingly) Inevitable climate change and ecological destruction, growing income inequality and falling standards of living, a deathly pandemic that's still killing people while we pretend everything is back to normal (+ long covid probably bringing about a disability crisis in 3-5 years), increasing tensions between various nuclear-capable states (Russia, China) and the West, changes in the age distribution in most…

Lol, really, a long covid disability crisis in 3 years? Gee, I wonder where the kids are getting all this unrealistic doom and gloom from.
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