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US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

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Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#461

Post by jasmer »

tsimionescu wrote: post #230
kazmerb wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather my own government spy on me than China. I'd rather Hannibal fucking Lecter be able to see me through my webcam than China.

Your own government has a much higher ability to affect your life than China does, so what you're saying is completely irrational. Not that it's OK for the Chinese to spy on us, mind you, or to claim that they don't have nefarious purposes.

Moral relativism between US and China is unfathomable. They are not remotely comparable on the whole.

China has a Dictator, a total absence of a Justice System, total surveillance and censorship, and large swaths of the population of some regions in concentration camps, a large number of individual dedicated to holding in place that apparatus.

Meanwhile you're free to walk down the street and tell the US President he's an idiot and you're not going anywhere without the entire US media knowing about it if they want to put public eyes on it for the sake of your own rights. There are laws, all sorts of controls, Judicial oversight, yada yada.

As if that even needs to be said.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#464

Post by nyokodo »

pvaldes wrote: post #341
PM_me_your_math wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. There are no reports or sightings and there are no leaks. Someone would have leaked that if it occurred.

[flagged]

> Either it was shoot down, or would have been later

The jets were scrambled in such a hurry to intercept Flight 93 that they weren’t loaded with ammunition. I’m afraid that the plan was to collide the fighters with the plane if necessary. It was a suicide mission. [1] However, we have plenty of evidence that the passengers resisted and in the course of that the plane crashed.

1. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/fighter-pilot-reflects-911-sui...

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#465

Post by poly_morphis »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #441

I feel sorry for the pool soul who decided to send up their DIY weather balloon with gopro to get that space shot. Who knows he might even have a video of a F-22 sending a missile over.

That’s funny, because this was my exact thought. How can they distinguish the difference when they say ‘unknown’ object…

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#466

Post by partiallypro »

leetrout wrote: post #458
neogodless wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800_conspiracy_theo...

From that very link you can find info on the recent litigation accusing the government of an errant missile hit. There is enough evidence to bring forth the suit whether you agree it is a conspiracy or not. https://lawstreetmedia.com/news/citing-new-evidence-survivin...

Civil suits are incredibly easy to push through (which is why there are various civil suits from assassinations and murders, even if the underlaying accused person/entity was found innocent), it doesn't mean it happened.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#467

Post by shakow »

mulmen wrote: post #272
tsimionescu wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own government has a much higher ability to affect your life than China does, so what you're saying is completely irrational. Not that it's OK for the Chinese to spy on us, mind you, or to claim that they don't have nefarious purposes.

I'd rather be spied on by a western democracy than China. Our intelligence agencies are out of control but there's still better mechanisms for reigning them in than China.

But there are very little chance that China cares about you, whereas your local intelligence agency may have a much more direct impact on you.

> but there's still better mechanisms for reigning them

If we learned anything from the last half-century, it's that this predicate is just comically wrong.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#468

Post by jasmer »

smcl wrote: post #304
mulmen wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather be spied on by a western democracy than China. Our intelligence agencies are out of control but there's still better mechanisms for reigning them in than China.

What mechanisms do you recommend for reining in, say, the NSA or GHCQ? Were either reined in at all after the Snowden leaks, or was it business as usual after things calmed down a bit? I think we have to accept that these intelligence agencies are effectively untouchable and here to stay. With that in mind I think it boils down to: who can do the most harm by spying on you: - a country thousands of miles away which y…

They are 'touchable', there is oversight, and their powers are very limited.

Give me an example of Americans who have been materially harmed by those agencies? And what was the damage?

Have Americans been oppressed, slandered for political gain, wrongly imprisoned, illegally targeted by police because of NSA activity?

I think it's doubtful for anything other than a few incidents; the proportionality of these tradeoffs does matter as these agencies do actually go after bad people. Like people selling sanctioned gear to Russia, money laundering, sex trafficking, etc. you know - 'bad things'.

I don't see professors disappearing because they said something on campus Biden didn't like.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#469

Post by leucineleprec0n »

anonymousiam wrote: post #400
John23832 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not theory, it’s actually military practice. Adversaries spend 100k for a military grade drone. What do shoot it down with? A 1M dollar Patriot? Whatever you choose will be orders of magnitude more expensive than the drone. Israel’s Iron Dome has the same issue. It costs massively more for defense than attack.

One of the oldest tricks in the (SIGINT) book is to trick the enemy into activating their radar and/or trigger a response to an incursion to collect all of the resulting signals intelligence.

Absolutely. This is the primary reason those “UFO’s” AKA balloons and drones are concerning: Signals intelligence (and/or radar jamming in the same vein which the DOD reported has occurred off the coast of Virginia).

It’s alarming many leaped to suggest LEO satellites obviate the need for balloons/drones/spy planes because it really isn’t true; there are some things for which a proper resolution and capture is simply only possibly with proximity, at least more than a satellite has. In fact that’s why we still use U-2 spy planes (upgraded) and did for the balloon.

Given the number of unidentified drone/balloon incursions reported by the Pentagon in the last few years near ships and air force bases I do wonder what’s been exposed about our radars and or datalinks. It also doesn’t necessarily matter that the data is encrypted (a weird refrain I saw) because the operating frequencies and behavior of the emitters on our aircraft, ships is in and of itself valuable information.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#470

Post by ajsnigrutin »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #441

I feel sorry for the pool soul who decided to send up their DIY weather balloon with gopro to get that space shot. Who knows he might even have a video of a F-22 sending a missile over.

How much does a weather baloon cost? ...compared to a F22 flight, a missle + all the logistics?

If it's cheap enough, there will probably be youtubers and tiktokers buying them en-masse just "for the lulz".

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