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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#461

Post by ticviking »

mrcrumb1 wrote: post #292
alldayeveryday wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another hard agree. I always get a good laugh when people in queer culture claim to be living a counter culture lifestyle. Meanwhile the US state department is flying the queer flag at its embassies around the world and using it to agitate foreign conservative cultures. I nominate being an unapologetic white male as the counter culture of our current time. Just watch how many downvotes you'll get on any social media…

[flagged]

Can you give a few examples?

The 30 under 30 sure doesn't look like what you suggest, and I'm not sure where else you'd look for a list of examples

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#462

Post by PuppyTailWags »

korroziya wrote: post #294
undersuit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

[flagged]

I would argue LGBTQ stuff is being shoved into the mainstream because trying to fit in didn't work for them. If we just granted gay people gay marriage when they asked politely for it then they wouldn't have needed to build such an in-your-face political movement. We can see this in early documents during the gay equality movement and the AIDS crisis. There were gay people trying to say "we're just like you, but gay, please help us, we're dying", and nothing got done about the mass death and suffering until they started protesting en-masse and throwing the ashes of their community members on white house grounds.

Obviously, if an entire community needed to be loud to survive, that community is going to retain its loudness into the next generation. The "original sin" as it were was ignoring their suffering in the first place.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#463

Post by l33t233372 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #346
undersuit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

[flagged]

Do you not believe that trans women are women? Why?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#464

Post by sudosysgen »

refuse wrote: post #459

I can't think of a counter culture that wasn't somehow absorbed by the economy and sold back to the masses. It all ends up getting commodified which makes it part of "culture" without the "counter". I've watched the trend accelerate in my life and I wonder if we're reaching some sort of point (because of social media?) where there is very nearly no culture (counter or otherwise) unless it is commodified. Everything h…

You're not the only one with this impression.

This process is called recuperation in sociology : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_%28politics%29?wp...

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#465

Post by AlexandrB »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #151
notsound wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's inaccurate to call a group that has large political parties in essentially every democratic country "counterculture". To me that seems like calling the moderate left counterculture. Maybe neo-nazis and other radicals are, but that's because nobody likes them except for themselves.

Referring to everyone as a nazi or radical that holds a different opinion from one's own is a huge reason why conservatism is growing so quickly as the new counter-culture, especially amongst youth. Societies simply cannot grow and thrive with degenerate movements which are inherently built on being immoral, self-centered, and self-destructive to both one's self and society as a whole.

[flagged]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#466

Post by dragonwriter »

We live in a society without a single distinct unitary “counterculture” and where the title of “counterculture” is coveted so that each competing subculture tries to claim that it is both a counterculture and the most significantly “counter” one (even the strongest contenders for being the dominant subculture do this.)

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#467

Post by goodSteveramos »

spacemadness wrote: post #448
standardUser wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If minority groups are "in charge", why is most of the wealth, corporate power and political power in the hands of majority groups? Obviously cultural norms change over time, and many ideas that were once fringe are now mainstream. But that doesn't mean that the majority white, straight, Christian(ish) majority in America doesn't still wield most of the power.

Case in point—-Name one recent president that didn’t need go pander to christians to get elected. I’ve always found this tiring being a non-christian myself. Christians are not oppressed no matter what the terminally online right-wing on HN seems to think.

I couldn't agree more. Why do you think politicians never explicitly pander to white people?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#468

Post by kurthr »

anonym29 wrote: post #450

There are many countercultures that are alive and well. One example: People who deliberately avoid social media, tape over webcams, use non-android, non-ios phones, who value their privacy. These people scrub the internet of their info, make aggressive use of GDPR/CCPA deletion requests. They do not want to be part of mainstream society for whatever reason. They are routinely marginalized by people around them, label…

Interestingly, of the on-line crowd I'd even put Qanon up there with the other countercultures. Being counterculture doesn't mean you aren't older or being grifted.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#469

Post by refuse »

sudosysgen wrote: post #464
refuse wrote: post #459

I can't think of a counter culture that wasn't somehow absorbed by the economy and sold back to the masses. It all ends up getting commodified which makes it part of "culture" without the "counter". I've watched the trend accelerate in my life and I wonder if we're reaching some sort of point (because of social media?) where there is very nearly no culture (counter or otherwise) unless it is commodified. Everything h…

You're not the only one with this impression. This process is called recuperation in sociology : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_%28politics%29?wp...

Thank you, I hadn't heard of this.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#470

Post by rootusrootus »

asveikau wrote: post #438
alldayeveryday wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another hard agree. I always get a good laugh when people in queer culture claim to be living a counter culture lifestyle. Meanwhile the US state department is flying the queer flag at its embassies around the world and using it to agitate foreign conservative cultures. I nominate being an unapologetic white male as the counter culture of our current time. Just watch how many downvotes you'll get on any social media…

It might get downvotes because you've just said it in a very ridiculous way that indicates you're angry about it. I think there's a valid point lurking there, but you botched it. Surely you appreciate that multiple things can be true at the same time, and there are numerous ways that white men have advantages still.

> you're angry about it

Why is it okay for one side to be angry, but not the other? This is such a commonly used accusation to deflate someone else's point. Making them seem emotional, and therefore illogical.

FWIW, I don't think the person you're replying to looks even a little bit angry in that post. The point of view seems well considered.

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