Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

web.archive.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 553 posts

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#461

Post by [deleted] »

neoromantique wrote: post #410
xeromal wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the military is actually used for combat operations so the risk of being injured or killed is higher than being "a shop owner, or carpenter or doctor or whatever". The majority aren't but you're still signing up for it when you join so you are given an amount of elevated respect. It's not something you sign up for willie nillie. You're obligated to serve for at least a tour (4 years I believe) and in those…

As almost everywhere in the world. Enrolling into military is a choice and you know risks beforehand, there’s nothing about that choice that deserves worship-like cult status military has in US.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#462

Post by influx »

WXLCKNO wrote: post #291
hueyluey wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "dishonerable" here? Is this an instance of how Americans love the military so much that it's difficult to understand for people from other countries (where being a military isn't different from being a shop owner, or carpenter or doctor or whatever)?

I think that's what he means too. Other people are talking about sacrifice. It's a job, like any other job. People do it because they want to get paid and military worship is ridiculous.

Serving in the military is different from other jobs as soldiers may be sent to dangerous situations where there is a risk of death. Although many Americans believe the decisions made by politicians that put military personnel in harm's way have not been good, this does not take away from the bravery of those who voluntarily choose to serve their country.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#463

Post by sicp-enjoyer »

neoromantique wrote: post #410
xeromal wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the military is actually used for combat operations so the risk of being injured or killed is higher than being "a shop owner, or carpenter or doctor or whatever". The majority aren't but you're still signing up for it when you join so you are given an amount of elevated respect. It's not something you sign up for willie nillie. You're obligated to serve for at least a tour (4 years I believe) and in those…

As almost everywhere in the world. Enrolling into military is a choice and you know risks beforehand, there’s nothing about that choice that deserves worship-like cult status military has in US.

And why do you think they take those risks? Do you think they would if people treated it like a job at mcdonalds? Would their families support them in being away for so long for 30k/year?

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#464

Post by quesera »

sandworm101 wrote: post #452
z3c0 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you overall, but that "serve their country" line makes me cringe every time. The military's operations are vast and numerous, but also politically-motivated and, at times, disgustingly utilitarian. Obviously, no grunt should bear that burden, but I feel better served by the post office.

It is cringe worthy, but when you get orders for a multi-year posting far away from friends and family, it really does feel like servitude. It was -30 outside this morning. My car hates me for bringing it here.

Some people join the military to serve their country.

But everyone in the military is indoctrinated to believe that they are serving their country.

Some of them are shipped overseas. Some live in Virginia Beach. Some are physically endangered. Some sit behind a desk.

There are good and noble people who choose a life of service. Some of them are in the military. Some of them are food kitchen volunteers.

Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee.

It's difficult to know the appropriate level of respect or honor to give to a random person displaying the paraphernalia of military service. "Thank you for your service" is free, and perhaps genuinely felt and received in some cases (but also vacuous at times).

I've worked with a lot of ex-military folks. And several members of my family are current or former members. I can't think of a single trait that is common to all of them.

Not physical fitness. Not leadership skills. Not honesty or honor or respectability. Not intelligence or grit or perseverance or fashion sense.

The median is probably higher than the average across the whole population. So there may be a correlation. Except fashion sense!

However this does not persuade me that there's a reason to differentially treat military vs random citizens in your example of a traffic stop. But I'm also not a cop!

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#465

Post by P_I_Staker »

b3orn wrote: post #140
yreg wrote: post #3

> [The Secret Service agent] asked my for some picture ID. I have some fake photo ID's that a friend made for me years before, when we could make realistic photo ID's from our computers. Almost nobody else could do this because printers weren't good enough. But I had an expensive early generation dye sublimation printer and made some fake ID's for fun. I had one favorite fake ID that I'd used for almost every airplan…

> It probably amounted to a real crime. I'm not a lawyer, I have no idea how criminal law in the USA works, but why would this be a crime? He didn't fake a Department of Defence ID, he created an ID for a fictional Department of Defiance, it may look similar, it may appear as a "real" ID because it's not just a piece of paper, but it's about as real an ID as a gym membership card.

Just lying to a federal agent is a pretty serious crime, I think. Wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume trying to pass a fake ID could be one, also.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#466

Post by quesera »

sicp-enjoyer wrote: post #463
neoromantique wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As almost everywhere in the world. Enrolling into military is a choice and you know risks beforehand, there’s nothing about that choice that deserves worship-like cult status military has in US.

And why do you think they take those risks? Do you think they would if people treated it like a job at mcdonalds? Would their families support them in being away for so long for 30k/year?

Some of them absolutely would, yes.

But psychologically, the drive to be a part of something important is very strong, especially in young men.

The military has a rich mythology that plays into, and perpetuates, this.

This is not bad or unhealthy! But it is also not inherently good. There are other groups which use the same tactics to recruit people for bad services. It very very much depends.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#468

Post by fzeroracer »

sbarre wrote: post #303
sandworm101 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a counterfeit ID. If the cop reading it walks away with the reasonable, but false, belief that the person works for the dod, he has presented a counterfeit ID. If he did it to trick the cop, he has knowingly presented false information/lied to police.

And people jaywalk all the time. Can we stop being so obtuse and only look at the letter of the law and think about the actual practical real-life consequence as a measure of severity? This was a joke, and no harm was done. Are you really advocating for a felony offence here? This is the same line of thinking, just reversed, that people use to say "well it's not illegal" when someone does something super shitty that…

The letter of the law is that he presented a counterfeit ID to a federal officer where lying to a federal officer is a very serious offense.

You can argue that 'well it was a joke!!' but if you were to joke around to your nearest FBI officer about how you have a bomb in your home and you're going to use it I imagine they wouldn't find it very funny.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#469

Post by doctor_eval »

O__________O wrote: post #314
ilyt wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But "document" contained his true name and picture

Woz per his own statements said he had to them provide his drivers ID and passport. No idea why you’re taking his account of the story as anything more than yet another lie - which is the point, he knew providing a fictional ID was an intentional misrepresentation of the truth, which I turn calls into questions any additional information he provides, which in turn makes it material to the investigation.

That’s not my understanding of materiality at all.

If the material information he provided was true then all the other silliness is just silliness. I mean, the agent is going to search on the name, probably find a photo in a license database, and confirm the guy is who he says he is, and that is the only point of asking for ID. They are hardly strong authenticators, and no professional is going to take some random bit of ID and use the non-identifying data on it to make decisions. What do you think they are going to do with the data anyway?

The fact is also that Woz did nothing wrong. So why does he have to automatically cowtow to an authority figure? He provided the materially important information in a humorous way. He didn’t do anything wrong. He poked the bear, but only a little bit.

Finally - not every citizen has a passport or even a drivers license. So even if requested, it’s not always possible to produce it.

Honestly - I admire Woz, but I will admit that I find his pranks to be a bit self indulgent. So what? He literally did nothing wrong and poked a bit of fun at the state.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#470

Post by fsloth »

alephnerd wrote: post #442
fsloth wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bit weird you got triggered by this out-of-context association when we were discussing the ethics of Woz's story, but you are correct, nordics are quite racist: https://harvardpolitics.com/nordic-racism/ - I would not say there is "some real racism" but call it a pretty entrenched position unfortunately.

Agreed that I got triggered and completely derailed this thread, and totally apologize about it btw. It just gets annoying sometimes when people from any community (America, Nordics, China, etc) get on a high horse sometimes. Idk, for some reason the idealization of "Nordics" (itself a highly contentious term - is Estonia nordic? is Greenland?) on internet forums gets annoying, because I can just tell it's white peop…

No problem :)

Nordic countries is a well defined collection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries - Greenland/Nuuk is part of them given it is a region of Denmark.

I don't think the racism can be helped short term - nordics have been isolated polities that only in past decades have had large flows of migrants from different cultures. (Well, apart from Sweden attempting to conquer Europe in the 17th century but it did not end well).

If it's any consolation nordic people can be quite xenophobic even toward each other so it's not as if they would be uniquely harsh towards specific ethnicity. Every non-native will be discriminated against pretty much equally, regardless of origin or complexion. They abhor anything unfamiliar regardless of complexion. The general narrative of historical racism in these areas is quite different as compared to more cosmopolitan western countries such as UK, France or US.

Law of Jante is a pretty good framework for understanding the nordic mindset (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante) - the baseline response even towards in-group members that are different will be severe.

It's changing, but change will take time.

Post reply on HN