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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#461

Post by cbo100 »

calderknight wrote: post #406
bmitc wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a pretty fringe worry of tracking that places a major burden on the business. While I am no fan of the amount of tracking going on, I'd say this is pretty far down the list. You're still tracked when you pull out cash. Credit cards have quite a bit of protection on them.

Is it really a major burden to accept cash? Am I really tracked when I pay in cash? Should this really be far down the list of privacy concerns? My debit cards record every single transaction I make with them. Anybody motivated enough could find out exactly where, when, and what I buy. Seems like a pretty major privacy concern.

> Is it really a major burden to accept cash?

It means somebody has to go to the bank each day to drop off the cash and collect change.

So it's inconvenient, and an unnecessary security risk to whichever staff member is required to do that.

Compared to not accepting cash and not having to deal with any of that, then yes it's a major burden.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#462

Post by andirk »

expensive_news wrote: post #275
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

I prefer paying cash. It is also elitist to not accept cash because it means I need a credit card or an expensive phone, neither of which I have on me while jogging.

I also don't jog, but you get the point. At my gym I had a keychain bar code that worked great. Now I need my phone, phone charged, brightness up, their stupid app, signed in, open it up, click check-in. It turned a 2 second 1 gram device in to this whole thing. Why?? What a waste of technology and time.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#463

Post by 8note »

jmugan wrote: post #187
JimtheCoder wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am Canadian, can confirm... I do wish there was a way to tip the drivers who deliver my Amazon Prime stuff, though. I don't want to tip someone who presses a few buttons on a screen to take my food order, that they usually mess up and sometimes add on a free side of bad attitude. I would like an easy way to tip the guy who is trudging through the snow to deliver my 2KG jar of peanut butter at 9:30pm in January. I lik…

Wouldn't that just continue to expand a bad practice? If drivers got tips, Amazon would lower their wages, and we'd just have another domain where we have to make extra decisions.

You want to tip without Amazon finding out.

Aka, cash, or venmo

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#464

Post by SilasX »

godelski wrote: post #58
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

We don't have to outlaw it but we should do something more difficult: make it not the social norm.

I propose a middle way: Outlaw tipping unless the establishment posts an upfront notice of what their tipping expectation is (what percent, for what services, for what satisfaction level).

Under that system:

- You can still have tipping with only a trivial amount of extra work.

- There would then be common knowledge -- in the technical sense [1] -- across all parties, leading to expectation alignment.

- There would be a clear mechanism for competition over expected tipping levels, letting people know they're getting into at each place.

I expect that such a system would to more establishments preferring the no-tip option, but even if not, it would remove the worst parts of the tipping system.

[1] i.e. where everyone knows the same things, and everyone knows everyone's else's level of knowledge about those things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#465

Post by 8note »

pseudo0 wrote: post #205
Insanity wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

Tipping in Canada is extra absurd. The minimum wage for servers and bartenders is the same as for regular workers (eg. $15.50 per hour in Ontario). But thanks to cultural osmosis from the US, 15-25% tips are also expected on top of that.

The expectation from the tipper is that the tips are unrelated to the wages.

You could tip 10k, and they'd still be paid at least minimum wage by the employer

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#466

Post by andirk »

8note wrote: post #460
Larrikin wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities are making it illegal, as they should. It's not always meant in bad faith, but it's also a form of gentrification that hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them. https://www.nssh.com/2020/04/philadelphias-ban-on-cashless-s... I personally never use anything but cards since I have many of the high reward credit cards. But I've also had family members with tax liens or other problems…

> that didn't allow them to get a bank account This sounds like the real problem to solve. It's unacceptable for people to be unable to get a bank account and whatever cards to pay cashless

OK but it is an issue. How about solve that decades old problem before turning people away and insisting that whatever payment processor take some 2-5% of your purchase. It's a complete digression of technology.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#467

Post by gymbeaux »

Larrikin wrote: post #375
expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

Cities are making it illegal, as they should. It's not always meant in bad faith, but it's also a form of gentrification that hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them. https://www.nssh.com/2020/04/philadelphias-ban-on-cashless-s... I personally never use anything but cards since I have many of the high reward credit cards. But I've also had family members with tax liens or other problems…

I saw one of those “mind blown!” sorts of posts on Facebook the other day that I haven’t been able to really reconcile in my head because it both makes sense and doesn’t make sense.

The gist was that if everybody is paying with credit cards, $50 will eventually whittle down to $0 because AmEx, et. Al. got $50 worth of fees after so many transactions (accountant pays grocer who pays dentist who pays hygienist who pays daycare, etc.). On one hand, what a huge waste of money. On the other hand, I as the consumer typically don’t get a discount for paying with cash, so why shouldn’t I take advantage of the “free” and secure payment option available to me?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#468

Post by 8note »

yafbum wrote: post #449

There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of…

Lol, more like 20/25/30

15/18/20 was in 2018

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#469

Post by alwaysanon »

Good article - mirrors my thoughts.

I moved to Australia from the US in 2006. I swear that when I left the tip was more like ~15% (as the sales tax where I was was 7.5% and the rule was that you doubled the tax to work it out). Every couple years I'd go back and it would seem to creep up. All of the sudden it was 20% and, then when I was back last year, somebody told me 20% was minimum and 25% was really more expected if the service was good.

The last time I was there I was out with 6 people and the bill was $500 and I watched them tip $150 (and then expect us all to evenly split it). The service was not exceptional - if anything I remember waiting ages to get the second drink and the bill. I am sure that person was working at least 5 tables (likely more) and you'd think at least a couple sittings so they'd be making some quite good money for a night at those kinds of numbers.

I made a bit of a comment about how it felt generous and they said "if you can't afford to tip like this you can't afford to go out to eat in America" - and I remember feeling things had gone way too far. It is a bit of a strange flex?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#470

Post by kbos87 »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

I am really of two minds about this. On one hand, yes, the suggestion that I leave a tip and the amount suggested has ballooned to a ridiculous level in some businesses.

On the other hand, I recognize that there are plenty of businesses that still don't offer a way to tip at all (Starbucks until very recently), and more importantly, that none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage. Having worked service industry jobs and found my way out, I can't help but thinking that most of these jobs are merely dark patterns that take advantage of people who can't or won't demand what they actually should be paid.

The unfortunate conclusion I've arrived at is that US consumers simply aren't willing to pay the true price for many of the things they enjoy on a day to day basis. Just one example is that their daily coffee is subsidized through the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees.

You say you pay a "higher wage" - what does that actually equate to for someone working 40 hours a week?

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