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The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

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Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#461

Post by clucas »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #428
krapp wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where are all those “it’s a private company they can do what they like” folks now? I haven’t seen that posted recently. Those people were responding to arguments that social media platforms banning people, moderating content or even presenting content under an algorithmic feed were violations of the First Amendment, Section 230 and freedom of speech, by pointing out that all of these actions are allowed by the afore…

So, when Twitter banned the NY Post at the recommendation of the FBI, that wasn’t an issue? I don’t see how suspending a few journalists for 12 hours and being directly able to point to their existing TOS is the same thing.

Plenty of white nationalists were banned from Twitter due to TOS violations. I seem to recall the free speech "absolutists" still being upset about those bans. Why is TOS violation suddenly a good reason to ban?

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#462

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

ceejayoz wrote: post #402
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People really need to think longer term. Asking too much. In the past couple months, HN users went from “it’s a private company they can do what they want” when Twitter was a public company working with the FBI to enact specific user censorship… to “OMG Elon banned a handful of journalists, freeze peach was a lie!” when it was a suspension for 12 hours. Where are all those “it’s a private company they can do what t…

Musk has every right to ban them. We have every right to point out he promised not to do such things, and that it calls his supposed dedication to free speech into question.

Good point. Except the people banned under Musk has been extremely low. The majority complaint is that a handful of people were suspended for less than a day for violating the existing and specific point of the Twitter TOS…

Compared to previously a national media outlet was actually banned for weeks for reporting a completely true story that the US Intelligence bureaucracy decided was in inconvenient to their desired results of an upcoming election.

Falsely equating this isn’t subtle and I don’t believe you are arguing in good faith. Ideologues everywhere.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#463

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

clucas wrote: post #387
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People really need to think longer term. Asking too much. In the past couple months, HN users went from “it’s a private company they can do what they want” when Twitter was a public company working with the FBI to enact specific user censorship… to “OMG Elon banned a handful of journalists, freeze peach was a lie!” when it was a suspension for 12 hours. Where are all those “it’s a private company they can do what t…

I'm one of those people. I think Elon can ban whomever he wants, for any reason he wants. I didn't see anyone arguing otherwise though, so I didn't have much to say. Edited to add: I am a little curious why the free speech absolutists weren't up in arms about those bans though. Hmm.

“I ignored when a national media outlet was banned for a publishing a true story that embarrassed a politician I and the US intelligence apparatus wanted to win… but no one complained about when I was suspended for 12 hours!”

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#464

Post by chitowneats »

maxbond wrote: post #457
chitowneats wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In its 1947 charter, the CIA was prohibited from spying against Americans, in part because President Truman was afraid that the agency would engage in political abuse. But the law didn't stop the CIA from spying on Americans. During the 1960s, in clear violation of its statutory mission to co-ordinate foreign intelligence operations only, the CIA ventured into the domestic spying business through "Operation Chaos,"…

GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA. They are explaining that the CIA handing any domestic concerns it has to the FBI is what the law prescribes, not a circumvention of the law. Note that and we can recognize this is how the law works, and still condemn any unjust actions they partake in together or even the intelligence apparatus as a whole. Indeed, our objections would…

> GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA.

Right. GP is defending CIA participation in a domestic influence/disinformation campaign, operated by the FBI. You will not convince me that this type of thing was intended to be permissible when the agency was created. See the quote from the ACLU above.

If you read the recent Twitter files, you will see that Elvis Chan included the CIA directly in a meeting with Twitter executives.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#465

Post by ceejayoz »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #462
ceejayoz wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk has every right to ban them. We have every right to point out he promised not to do such things, and that it calls his supposed dedication to free speech into question.

Good point. Except the people banned under Musk has been extremely low. The majority complaint is that a handful of people were suspended for less than a day for violating the existing and specific point of the Twitter TOS… Compared to previously a national media outlet was actually banned for weeks for reporting a completely true story that the US Intelligence bureaucracy decided was in inconvenient to their desired…

"It's OK because it wasn't many people. Now, let me tell you about the one account that got suspended I'm mad about."

Come on.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#466

Post by [deleted] »

chitowneats wrote: post #464
maxbond wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA. They are explaining that the CIA handing any domestic concerns it has to the FBI is what the law prescribes, not a circumvention of the law. Note that and we can recognize this is how the law works, and still condemn any unjust actions they partake in together or even the intelligence apparatus as a whole. Indeed, our objections would…

> GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA. Right. GP is defending CIA participation in a domestic influence/disinformation campaign, operated by the FBI. You will not convince me that this type of thing was intended to be permissible when the agency was created. See the quote from the ACLU above. If you read the recent Twitter files, you will see that Elvis Chan included the…

[deleted]

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#467

Post by maxbond »

chitowneats wrote: post #464
maxbond wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA. They are explaining that the CIA handing any domestic concerns it has to the FBI is what the law prescribes, not a circumvention of the law. Note that and we can recognize this is how the law works, and still condemn any unjust actions they partake in together or even the intelligence apparatus as a whole. Indeed, our objections would…

> GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA. Right. GP is defending CIA participation in a domestic influence/disinformation campaign, operated by the FBI. You will not convince me that this type of thing was intended to be permissible when the agency was created. See the quote from the ACLU above. If you read the recent Twitter files, you will see that Elvis Chan included the…

> GP is defending CIA participation in a domestic influence/disinformation campaign, operated by the FBI.

Please show me the phrase where they do this.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#468

Post by dragonwriter »

refurb wrote: post #439
dragonwriter wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI isn’t just a law enforcement agency. “The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is a national security and law enforcement agency that uses, collects, and shares intelligence in all it does.” https://www.justice.gov/doj/organization-mission-and-functio... “The FBI is an intelligence-driven and threat-focused national security organization with both intelligence and law enforcement responsibilities. It is the…

So it collects intelligence? That changes nothing in what I said. Or do you see a distinction between “law enforcement” and “intelligence agency” when it comes to asking a private business to ban certain customers? I see no distinction. Both operate with the all the powers vested by the government. They have no business doing it.

> So it collects intelligence?

Collects and shares intelligence, intelligence assessments, and recommendations on mitigating threats indicated by that intelligence with other domestic and friendly government and private sector entities, yes.

That's all very much part of the FBI’s overt, primary, national security role.

Is there potential for confusion that needs careful clarity, especially when communicating with legally unsophisticated parties, when government agency has both advisory/supportive roles and enforcement roles, to avoid confusion about which role it is acting in? Sure.

Is Twitter the kind of unsophisticated entity where this concern is strongest? No. Is there any evidence that the FBI communication blurred the context of communication with Twitter such that there is nevertheless a legitimate concern that they were, explicitly or even implicitly, coercive despite Twitter not being unsophisticated? Not that I’ve seen. Is there, coercion aside, evidence that the FBI was intentionally decieiving Twitter with reports, so as to lead Twitter into actions it would not take but for a misleading perception deliberately created by the FBI? Not, again, that I have seen.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#469

Post by chitowneats »

maxbond wrote: post #467
chitowneats wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GP is not defending illegal domestic surveillance of protest movements by the CIA. Right. GP is defending CIA participation in a domestic influence/disinformation campaign, operated by the FBI. You will not convince me that this type of thing was intended to be permissible when the agency was created. See the quote from the ACLU above. If you read the recent Twitter files, you will see that Elvis Chan included the…

> GP is defending CIA participation in a domestic influence/disinformation campaign, operated by the FBI. Please show me the phrase where they do this.

> In that domestic in intelligence/counterintelligence is the FBIs job, and that they are expected to do it as part of and in close coordination with other parts of the intelligence community including the CIA, yes, but its not getting around anything since its exactly the way things are supposed to work.

"Expected" "not getting around anything" "Supposed to"

Textbook apologia for the CIA's expansive interpretation of its own mandate.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#470

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

yehudalouis wrote: post #222

I prefer the old, anti-establishment left. Now the left is just comprised of journalists defending three letter agencies while calling the right "bootlickers." I don't like the idea of any three letter agency having any communication with a company like Twitter unless it is for a specific investigation.

What? Democrats might be defending the TLAs but leftists have always been the explicit target of agencies like the FBI and CIA. So to suggest that they'd somehow be defending them is laughable.
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