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TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

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Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#461

Post by robhawkes »

illwrks wrote: post #72

It reminds me of the ViziCities work that was done 7/8 years ago by a guy called Rob Hawkes - https://twitter.com/robhawkes That to me was groundbreaking. https://github.com/UDST/vizicities

That's me! Thank you for the nostalgia.

ViziCities was such a fun adventure and something that I'd like to pick up again at some point, or at least some sort of successor. The ecosystem for spatial visualisation on the Web has changed dramatically since I created ViziCities so I'd love to see what's possible using today's technology.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#462

Post by gertrunde »

jstummbillig wrote: post #323
gambiting wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a modern car with a built-in satnav as well as Android Auto support, and yet I still use my TomTom 5000 - it's just better. Definitely better than crappy Google Maps, definitely better than volvo's built-in maps, and it's without any kind of comparison how much better it is than Apple Maps. You get in the car, it auto-selects the destination based on the patterns it learnt(so if you get in at 7am on a workday,…

> It's just better. Definitely better than crappy Google Maps I struggling to see how anything could be "definitely" better than "crappy" Google Maps. To me, GMaps has made navigation about as exciting as using a door knob. It works without fail, and is so incredibly mundane, that the thought of forming a strong opinion about it makes me drowsy.

The short version is that Google Maps is 'free', it's not terrible, and it's better than nothing. (And often better than the integrated in-car satnav systems - although that's not so much because Maps is good as because the in-car systems are often quite bad - the Tomtom & Garmin integrated options being a notable exception).

But Maps is definitely worse than dedicated navigation devices, although it does improve over time.

There are certain things it is particularly bad at, for example routing down slow 20mph residential roads with speed bumps.

But... are the dedicated navigation devices so much better than Google Maps to justify the increased cost? Probably not for 99% of people.

I used to use a Garmin satnav, and plug it in to my laptop and use Garmin's software to do my travel expenses, full tracking of all my movements, and it's my data to do with as I wish with no concerns. I can do the same thing through Google Timeline... but it's not even close to as well executed, and gives me serious data privacy concerns... because Google.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#463

Post by devilbunny »

98codes wrote: post #390
jstummbillig wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just better. Definitely better than crappy Google Maps I struggling to see how anything could be "definitely" better than "crappy" Google Maps. To me, GMaps has made navigation about as exciting as using a door knob. It works without fail, and is so incredibly mundane, that the thought of forming a strong opinion about it makes me drowsy.

It (and all other GPS apps I've tried) work well enough, until you try to go somewhere you know well and have to turn it off to stop it from trying to reroute you over & over again. If any app would allow me to have some sort of ability to let me set a level of "pain" (traffic, stoplights, smaller roads, extra turns) that's acceptable vs. a level of time savings, I'd use that app and never look back. The number of ti…

I just ignore it when it's going on and on and I'm headed to a destination I know well. Or I'll turn it off when I'm within a mile or so, I just want to use the traffic awareness to make sure I don't end up in an unexpected jam.

One slight oddity - it doesn't seem to care about which side of the street your destination is on in a lot of cases. Sure, in a suburban neighborhood, that's irrelevant. But in a city with two-way traffic on the street, it can matter quite a lot.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#464

Post by devilbunny »

tus666 wrote: post #395
jstummbillig wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just better. Definitely better than crappy Google Maps I struggling to see how anything could be "definitely" better than "crappy" Google Maps. To me, GMaps has made navigation about as exciting as using a door knob. It works without fail, and is so incredibly mundane, that the thought of forming a strong opinion about it makes me drowsy.

Does it work without fail when you drive out of range of mobile reception?

If it has planned the route while within service, it actually does. It guided me from Vegas to Yosemite (via Lee Vining and the Tioga Pass) without trouble despite several areas of no service. It had registered the waypoints and knew where it was, even if I couldn't load any additional map data. (I had not saved the area for offline use.)

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#465

Post by devilbunny »

daniel_iversen wrote: post #137
cinntaile wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tom Tom used to charge for map updates, which became a no-go for many. This is what led to their demise, no?

I would say so (that and the smartphone as ppl points out) - they announced subscription service around 2009-2011 from what I can see online and we can see the interest falling drastically since: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=tomtom .. that's also when I stopped using them I think, and what's interesting is that once you get into the habit of using a new map+navigation service it seems quite har…

Give Apple Maps a shot in an area you know well. In my experience, GMaps is better in terms of knowing what's around you and the traffic - but AMaps gives much more easily-followed directions and doesn't do silly routes to save five seconds' time.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#466

Post by devilbunny »

SoftTalker wrote: post #411
gambiting wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a modern car with a built-in satnav as well as Android Auto support, and yet I still use my TomTom 5000 - it's just better. Definitely better than crappy Google Maps, definitely better than volvo's built-in maps, and it's without any kind of comparison how much better it is than Apple Maps. You get in the car, it auto-selects the destination based on the patterns it learnt(so if you get in at 7am on a workday,…

> if you get in at 7am on a workday, it automatically selects "work" as your destination. Then around 4pm, it will select "Home". OK, but you need GPS navigation and maps to get between "work" and "home"?

Traffic awareness, I'd guess. I use Google just for that whenever I'm away from home (which is a small city, I don't have to go far, and I know all the alternate routes if one is busy). I already know how to get to 90% of the places I'm going in some cities, but they're the easy-to-remember routes, not necessarily the fastest ones.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#467

Post by Popeye007 »

fs111 wrote: post #10

I worked at Tele Atlas/TomTom until 10 years ago. There is literally nothing new in this announcement except that they are going to "steal" data from OSM now. sensor derived data, user generated content, camera vans all of that is not new. All this existed when I left, so did the people mentioned in this announcement that are still running the show. I always hoped they would eventually realize that they need a fresh…

There are three groups each with their strengths and weaknesses.

One are the carmakers, OEM’s. Take for instance CARIAD, the Volkswagen software arm. They are a TomTom partner. Their strength is sensor data. There will be 40 million Volkswagen brand cars where the front camera sends data to the servers. Their problem is that they don’t have mapping expertise. They do want to build their own services on top of a base map. For instance all charging stations that are theirs. (ionity).

Then you have tomtom. Their strength is AI and machine learning and how to fuse those vehicle sensor data in the map. Also they have a team of 1.000 mapping employees in Pune, India. Making edits every day and checking change reports with other data like sattelite imagery. Their challenge is that they need those data from car sensors (and they get them)

Then there is obviously OSM. Where the strength is the wisdom of the community. But also a weakness that people can make mistakes and from time to time vandalism happens.

In this new venture you get a best of both (or in this case 3) worlds.

The India people in Pune can do quality checks on OSM data. For instance comparing with other sources. And their tools and AI can fuse sensor data from cars of tomtom partners. Those are Volkswagen group but also Stellantis (merger of Peugeot-Citroen and Fiat-Chrysler-Jeep), Toyota and others.

The TomTom base map (lowest layar) will be provided to OSM.

Forgot to mention one thing, which is Apple. TomTom gets their probe data which helps in street geometry and traffic. With the help of OSM TomTom now has a Japan map. Very important for carmakers in Japan. Big market. Because in Japan 80% of mobile phone users are iOS users (huge iPhone marketshare) this is an opportunity to get data from many sources together. Also from Japanese carmakers like Toyota who do research with TomTom on HD maps for autonomous driving and assisted driving (ADAS).

This looks like a win-win-win for all three. Carmakers, TomTom and OSM. And a worry for Google Maps and HERE technologies.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#468

Post by gambiting »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #441
gambiting wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience - it's just frequently wrong, to a point where I don't feel confident using it. Telling you to turn where you can't, going wrong way up one-way streets, showing you that streets connect on the map where they actually don't.......I could keep going. I keep reporting errors and they never get fixed. Like I mentioned in another comment there's a road near my work which has a no-left-turn sign but Google…

does it rely much on user reporting? I figured google maps was smarter than that. it would have the data to see that no one takes a left at that no-left street you mentioned.

Except that people absolutely take that left turn despite the sign - it's just a very convenient shortcut, and UK has extremely lax enforcement on the road. The chances of getting a ticket for taking an illegal turn are close to zero. So Google will have the data that a left turn is indeed possible there, because clearly - people are taking it. Me reporting the "no left turn" sign is probably treated as malicious since clearly - in real life people are taking this turn all the time.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#469

Post by artificialLimbs »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #338
artificialLimbs wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better for some. That means we all have to foot the bill for the infrastructure/maintenance. Paying a private company voluntarily would be preferable.

The government is already tasked with managing roads and traffic.

I rest my case.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#470

Post by ddulaney »

muti wrote: post #447
ddulaney wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced both sides. My rough sense of it is: If you're in a city or suburb with a Google office, it's spotless, including transit options that are often customized to the city itself. If you're in a city or suburb without a Google office, it's reliable on roads but probably doesn't cover transit particularly well. I'm not sure if the Google vs. non-Google office is just a bias towards the kind of cities Goog…

There's no google office where I live, but google maps will show detailed transit information including exactly where on its route the bus you are waiting for is. There's an attribution saying the data is coming from the local metro provider, who has their own interface for accessing the same data, but having it in google maps is nice as it integrates well with other navigation. So I would say it comes down more to w…

> The government department for land information does make almost all GIS data publicly available

That’s awesome! What country is this, if you don’t mind me asking? GIS datasets are really fun to play with.

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