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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#461

Post by ShredKazoo »

nequo wrote: post #411
ShredKazoo wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robin Hanson has a paper where he argues that such attempts at manipulation won't work: https://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/biashelp.pdf Based on the abstract, I think the essential argument is that a market manipulator acts as "dumb money", attracting "smart money" who are happy to profit by bringing the market back in line with reality.

I think what I got confused by is the idea that a proposal that is “popular with the market” is popular because it reduces inequality and not because it has good financial returns. Take the inequality example that you mention. Reducing inequality might require large government spending, like free higher education, or extensive government-provided healthcare. This requires funding which pushes up interest rates. Someo…

>Someone in the prediction market might agree that free higher education reduces inequality but might also think that it will increase the government’s cost of financing its spending. The latter is what usually gives politicians trouble with financial markets. How would a prediction market resolve this issue?

One approach would be to have multiple markets, that track endpoints like inequality and interest rates separately for any given candidate policy.

In the best case, prediction markets could give you accurate forecasts on a large number of candidate policies, and you could select a policy that the market thinks does a pretty good job according to lots of relevant endpoints. (My hunch is that our current system is bad at searching for such win/win policies, preferring instead the drama that comes from clashing over win/lose policies. For example, you mention free higher education, but how much does the average college grad really use or remember from their degree? I'd argue there is a lot of territory in apprenticeships that is currently unexplored, and smart policy could facilitate this -- especially if we start with small-scale experimentation.)

You're absolutely correct that the market can't help with moral questions such as how much government spending is justifiable in pursuit of reduced inequality. Robin Hanson proposes eventually moving to a system where the job of elected officials is to manage metrics related to what voters want out of government policies, and markets decide the rest. In slogan form: "Vote on values, bet on beliefs." https://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/futarchy.html

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#462

Post by [deleted] »

factcheckdec wrote: post #442
Gordonjcp wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an extremely biased opinion, and I make no apologies. I think every single living member of every Tory cabinet present and past should be strung up in Parliament Square. I'm not in any sense unclear about my views on them. We have had twelve years of disastrous Tory austerity that has comprehensively destroyed the UK's economy. What's the plan? Let them keep trying until they get something right? How long is it…

@dang, here's a member calling for the execution of members of a political party.

[deleted]

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#463

Post by kergonath »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #188
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

One of my favorite C-Span shows was The Prime Minister's Questions[0]. Don't mess with British politicians. Even the grumpiest old dogs can savage most American politicians, as the folks that tried roasting Galloway found out[1]. [0] https://www.c-span.org/series/?PrimeMinisterQue [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5u1skEoqLs

> as the folks that tried roasting Galloway found out

I don’t particularly like that guy, but my goodness he’s absolutely brilliant in that exchange.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#464

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

cameronh90 wrote: post #245
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

> who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate.

i'd consider that a bug not a feature

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#465

Post by claudiawerner »

cameronh90 wrote: post #245
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

I've read some debates held between MPs in Hansard. I can't speak for any sizable portion, but what I did see on the topics I was interested in is a shockingly low form of discussion abound with fallacies, name-calling, and soliciting the opinions of unqualified individuals to inform the law.

Sure, they may run circles around you or me when it comes to debating some aspects of policy. But not around someone who's invested time and energy into a specific topic, which I think ought to be the bar for whether we consider these people 'well educated' and 'intelligent' when they are running the country supposedly on my behalf(!).

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#466

Post by smcl »

factcheckdec wrote: post #445
Gordonjcp wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I should be tolerant of the people that have killed a couple of million people and destroyed the country? At what point is it okay to no longer be tolerant of them?

How many people did the government led by Tony Blair kill, by the way? Or do we only care about British lives?

Being anti-Tory does not imply you're pro-Blair. I'd happily send Tony Blair to the Hague to answer for his crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#467

Post by rootusrootus »

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA

The question I have is which came first, in the US? Regular citizens in the US harbor the same naked resentment and hatred for their fellow Americans based solely on political affiliation. We used to hide it better, especially around family, but that barrier has mostly been broken down too. Did our politicians turn us this way? Or did we just elect politicians that say the things we want to say? Did the news media whip up this resentment with biased stories, or did we voluntarily filter bubble our way into incentivizing that behavior?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#468

Post by sbuk »

factcheckdec wrote: post #445
Gordonjcp wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I should be tolerant of the people that have killed a couple of million people and destroyed the country? At what point is it okay to no longer be tolerant of them?

How many people did the government led by Tony Blair kill, by the way? Or do we only care about British lives?

You seem to conveniently forget that Tories in parliament won him that vote. All the usual Tory rags (the Sun, Dailies Mail and Express and the Times) were all extremely hawkish, as we’re the leading Tories.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#469

Post by whoooooo123 »

addicted wrote: post #415
cameronh90 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

The UK government also has an excellent civil servant corps. In reality it’s the civil service, that continues across government, that keeps the UK govt running. The elected officials are limited to providing high level directions. One of the major mistakes made by Kwarteng as chancellor was firing an extremely senior civil servant which spooked not just the civil service but also the markets, because it indicated th…

No-one wants elected officials running the government? Then why do we elect them?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#470

Post by ableal »

jjar wrote: post #178
kamaal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>a miserable failure who crashed the economy. Can somebody from the UK tell us what did she do that the economy crashed, in just under two months?

Announced a lot of unfunded tax cuts financed by borrowing - these have now been walked back on. The main issue was not really that she cut taxes, it's the unfunded borrowing to cover. Borrowing with the current high interest rates was always going to be risky and the market didn't have confidence that the cuts would lead to growth. This caused the value of the pound and of UK gov bonds (gilts) to plummet. Several la…

Thank you. That's a few weeks news in two paragraphs.
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