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Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

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Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#461

Post by [deleted] »

jonas21 wrote: post #446
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I'd love to fix homelessness in America! Really, I would! But Google's policies are causing people to get locked out of their accounts now , today. Google could put a toggle in Google Account settings titled something like "Allow anyone who knows my password to log in to my Google account (less secure)." It could sit above a description of the risks involved. It would need to be disabled by default, and it woul…

That's almost exactly what Google has done. Here's how you turn off 2FA on your account: 1. Go to myaccount.google.com 2. Press "Security" 3. Press "2 step verification" 4. Enter your password 5. Press "Turn off" 6. Confirm the dialog that says "Turning off 2-Step Verification will remove the extra security on your account, and you’ll only use your password to sign in."

[deleted]

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#462

Post by MichaelCollins »

tayo42 wrote: post #453
tbagman wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homelessness in the US is a complex problem. I found the Soft White Underbelly interview series by Mark Laita insightful when learning more about it: https://www.softwhiteunderbelly.com Mark spent considerable time earning the trust of LA's skid row population – a large roadside tent community – and has a series of 1:1 interviews with a slice of the population, exploring their histories, challenges, preferences, and…

I have a feeling that the issue isn't homelessness really, but the kinds of people that end up homeless cause problems anyway. Someone won't stop being violent or committing crime because they got moved from a tent to a studio. I don't think the temporally homeless, like someone down on their luck. makes up the issues people have with homeless. You see some crazy person, then you see that person is homeless, your ans…

I think people would be a lot more compassionate towards homeless people generally if the violent and destructive subset of homeless people were put in prison where they belong. With the awful ones out of the way, the peaceful sympathetic homeless people would become the public face of homelessness and the general public would be much more willing to to address their problems constructively (e.g. provide housing to them.)

But instead the justice system is set up to give effective impunity to the worst sort of homeless people; they're back on the street days after being arrested (if they are even arrested in the first place.) They cause incredible damage and commotion, so they hog all the public attention and give all homeless people a very bad name through association.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#463

Post by Wowfunhappy »

tyingq wrote: post #450
jonas21 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's almost exactly what Google has done. Here's how you turn off 2FA on your account: 1. Go to myaccount.google.com 2. Press "Security" 3. Press "2 step verification" 4. Enter your password 5. Press "Turn off" 6. Confirm the dialog that says "Turning off 2-Step Verification will remove the extra security on your account, and you’ll only use your password to sign in."

I recall that the problem was broader than 2FA. They also re-verify accounts that have been idle, or that are being accessed from a new location. Or issues if you've forgotten the password and don't have a phone.

This is exactly it. And if you don't have a verification method on file, Google will just lock the account if it thinks something about your browser or IP address is unusual. Even if you know your password.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#464

Post by modeless »

Why is this guy mad at Google for implementing security (which I guarantee has saved a lot of homeless from account takeovers), when he could be mad at the government program for failing to provide people with a stable phone number? Constantly changing your phone number has a lot of other bad consequences which have nothing to do with Google.

And maybe the government should consider providing an email account too. The cost would be negligible compared to buying people new phones every 12 weeks...

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#465

Post by yellowapple »

UncleMeat wrote: post #65
wavelen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

afair you need to set up a phone number before you can choose to add another 2FA option (which is stupid imho)

Even if this is the case, this isn't a problem for the poster. They have a phone number, it just changes frequently. They can sign up, enroll in a TOTP or U2F system, and then they are set.

Except if you're using e.g. Google Authenticator and you lose that phone, you've now lost your TOTPs. The most unhoused-friendly solution there would be to use something like Authy instead (which is another password to remember, but at least it makes it easy to recover your TOTP keys on a new device without needing the old one); next best would be to use something like andOTP which supports backups (but then you'd need someplace to store those backups, which introduces the same problems as safely keeping a phone on your person).

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#466

Post by yamtaddle »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #75
valenterry wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the actual response is that without 2FA even more people lose access to their accounts This is not black and white. It is possible to encourage 2FA but allow to opt out. The same for phone numbers. And that's why companies enforce 2FA: they want your juicy phone-number or other data. And yeah, maybe they also want to reduce support costs and avoid bad publicity. Still, it's not in your interest, it's in theirs.…

> Still, it's not in your interest, it's in theirs. Which is okay, because it is a business. If society wants homeless people to have reliable access to email without having SMS 2FA or whatever requirements a business requires, then society should elect a government to provide it as a utility. There is no reason to expect or want businesses to pick up the slack for the government not providing adequate safety nets. L…

IMO it became plainly a good idea to have the US Post Office provide email service no later than a decade ago.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#468

Post by gubernation »

angry_octet wrote: post #19

This problem, and the not-my-problem responses, really highlight the self centered mindset we have encouraged. What if that homeless person was your substance-abusing sibling? A friend from school with mental health issues? We need to collectively take more responsibility for those in the worst situations. If you've every tried to teach an old person how to use 2FA you know it's an uphill battle. Using a fingerprint…

[flagged]

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#470

Post by yamtaddle »

MAGZine wrote: post #177
calibas wrote: post #161

Potential solution, the Obamaphone program keeps using the same phone number for an individual instead of totally new ones every time they lose a phone.

this feels like a workaround. We should not be treating phonenumbers as SSN round two, where everyone relies on it for your identity, and it should never be changed because of how much shit was needlessly tied to it. I rue the day I need to change my phone number and my digital identity becomes a huge headache, especially for far flung services that decided they wanted my phone number, but I wouldn't have considered…

The correct solution to this and a shitload of other problems is a real, national ID program. But there's enough resistance to it in both US political parties that it can't happen. The lack of it causes a ton of stress, over the population, and is a drag on the economy, but we're just never gonna fix it. Instead we'll de-facto have one (or more) anyway, including 99% of the risks that a real one would carry with it that everyone's so hand-wringy about, but without the benefits of the real thing.
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