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The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
461–470 of 817 posts
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
Greece has the exact same problem. Rents are skyrocketing and people can't afford to live in their own cities. We're building more housing, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Maybe SF doesn't want to build more housing, but this isn't universal.
My experience with most people saying "we are building more housing" is that they drastically overestimate how much housing is getting built, especially relative to yesteryear. If you look at net increase in units YoY, it's usually quite modest even for booming, "in-demand" areas. The other part is that the same things that make it slower to build more housing also make it more expensive, all the various bureaucratic…
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
For many decades, California has had extremely restrictive building regulations, especially in the most desirable areas. That is slowly changing, but the actual building has always been straightforward. It is getting the permission to do so that is complicated, expensive, and often just impossible.
The most desirable areas aren't filled with buildings at every corner.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are good arguments that foreigners should only be allowed to own real estate only in specific places and that citizenship should be by blood only for small countries - let's say under 100000 sq km and 50 million people. Too easy for them to be overtaken by global elite otherwise.
Citizenship-by-investment programs are dominated by small nations. Seems like smaller nations actually disproportionately favor absorbing richer foreigners. The most extreme example is probably Comoros, which up until a few years ago you could become a citizen for $45k over-the-counter.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city Portugal should build more housing, which is a simple, effective solution if the rent is too damn high: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-ren... . The nice thing about indoor space is that we can make pretty much as much of it as we'd like.
You can induce demand too. Somehow they'll have to limit that demand.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#466Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…
You'd feel at home in LA.
I've seen this trend here for at least a decade now. I know some people who say that the construction of these luxury apartments is a sign that the economy is recovering, but I remain skeptical. These places are the least lived-in looking apartment complexes I've ever seen in my life. There's one down the street from where I live that was completed around 5 years ago, and I would bet good money that most of it is vacant. I rarely see people going to and from it, besides the occasional few who visit the burger bar right in front of it. Too many of the balconies look sterile.
I don't know why so many of these are being built outside of LA proper, but I have a theory for why there are these massive complexes being built; the rich have spoiled children they no longer want to deal with so mommy and daddy pay for these apartments to house them. I used to deliver food to these places and, without fail, I was delivering to men and women who appeared way too young to afford such places.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#467Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…
Many dislike the idea, but this is why people turn to "nationalism". If you want to decrease unemployment, you add tariffs for imports enabling more businesses to open domestically (i.e. tariffs effectively increase import costs). Similarly, you can loosen building codes to increase production of homes, limit visa duration, require citizenship for home ownership, etc. Those are some obvious fixes, why is the governme…
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
> or example, if you own three ordinary apartments in Lisbon, you can live in one of them and easily make a good living by renting out the other two as holiday apartments. Because cleaning services, guys who do repairs, etc., are cheap in Portugal, this involves almost no work. Moreover, the net worth of your property will continually increase while you do (almost) nothing. I'm a bit conflicted on this. I definitely…
Not all assets are equal. Shelter is a basic human need. Creating an environment that allows speculation in this asset is bad. Progressively tax the shit out of each subsequent property owned. Prevent foreign/corporate ownership of property outside of short stay, hotel/motel type accommodation. Make shelter an extremely unattractive asset to own. Unfortunately, many politicians across the world are also landlords.
I don't think "basic need" is a good argument, as many other things are basic needs but function perfectly fine in a market-based system. This perspective sounds moral, but proposes nothing to actually resolve the problem (other than to advantage a particular section of the population at the expense of another - namely, people who would like to be homeowners). I note that most such proposals make no allowances for people who would like to rent - because they don't actually care about anyone other than themselves; they want to own a home, ideally at a low price, in a good location, with good services, on a large block.
Food is also a basic need, but does not get any of the attention because it is a functioning market.
In many places, property is not a very functional market, as suppliers (developers) are unable to respond to demand thanks to regulations/zoning.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using a word as subjective as "fair" allows for people to propose solutions you don't agree with, but that they think are fair. The author of the article says: > Digital nomads, retired foreigners, and millionaires searching for Gold visas are pushing the Portuguese to another place. > Is this really that fair? We are obviously supposed to say "no", but I think the answer is yes. I really hate this form of argument b…
It's hard to empathize with a belief system that thinks pricing a native population out of their own country is fair. I suppose if you hold that everything should be subordinate to economics, including community and nationhood?
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is interesting, because (at least in America) the current rhetoric is that housing was laughably affordable up until the 70s(?). I always find this a bit of a disappointing discussion, cherry picked to the extremes. If we're being honest in talking about the cost of housing, we'd try to make apples to apples comparisons. For example, if we used to eat apples that were 2 inches in diameter, lacked sweetness, ha…
> it doesn't mean housing was laughably affordable and now isn't. I appreciate your approach, and I hadn't considered this perspective, but it still rings hollow to me: Can I purchase 1/2.6 of a house? Just because the unit cost of housing has gotten cheaper doesn't mean _owning a home_ is more affordable. Sure, I'll accept larger homes are being built at cheaper unit-cost. But those homes are still being snatched up…
The problem is land has gotten expensive, not so much construction. Also, regulations and the like generally raise the bar for what is considered an acceptable house, which also contributes to rising prices (eg. things like mandatory minimum parking, housing amenities, etc.
Some places want to ban apartments smaller than a particular size because they are "expensive dog-boxes", which rather misses the point. I imagine the logic is that larger apartments will be available for the same price if such comes to pass... People are capable of impressive mental gymnastics.