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Why aren't smart people happier?

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#461

Post by kbelder »

NotTameAntelope wrote: post #414
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have the life experience to know what will and won't affect you, and you've found an equilibrium of control and impact that apparently makes you happy. I think some people have too much empathy to ever reach that point. I have a few friends that literally broke out in tears when Russia began the invasion of Ukraine. They don't know a single person in Ukraine. Nothing about the war truly has an effect on their d…

What you're feeling is selfishness, not sociopathy, for what it's worth! I don't think a sociopath would wonder what you're wondering here, but I'm no expert.

Not just selfishness... I'd describe it as a healthy amount of selfishness, and the others he's mentioned probably don't have enough.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#462

Post by kbelder »

seydor wrote: post #146
klik99 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question - how old are you? Anecdotally I’ve noticed smart people tend to have this attitude until their late 20s when it starts mellowing out. Now I’m a bit older I see my smarter friends happier than anyone and the less smart just about the same as always

Cognitive decline is a natural consequence of aging

Whereas in youth cognition is still developing.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#463

Post by ravel-bar-foo »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #87
necovek wrote: post #46

Everyone seems to have missed one subtlety: the article only states (with references) that smart people are not happier . At no point does it say that smart people are less happy (it does mention two studies where in one "lowest scoring" were a tiny bit unhappier, and in another "highest scoring" were happier): the overall tone is that they are equally happy regardless of their intelligence. And then it wonders why t…

Yes! And the main theory of the article is barely discussed in current comments thread, but to me novel and very thought-provoking: The model of "well-defined problems" vs "poorly-defined problems" and the hypothesis that what we call "smart" is usually being good at solving well-defined problems, but it's being good at solving poorly-defined problems that might correlate with happiness, and being good at solving wel…

On the other hand, my experience is that the smartest people I know are very effective at simplifying / formalizing poorly defined problems and then solving the resultant well-defined problems.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#464

Post by SMAAART »

id wrote: post #105
SMAAART wrote: post #35

When I used to battle my depression I came across an article/paper that stated that smart people are more prone to depression. Same with "creative" people. I have overcome depression and I am "satisfied" with my life (I prefer the word "satisfied" to the overinflated one: happiness). And now that depression is in my past I think that was a puff-piece article, and so is this. One could say that more intelligent people…

You can know better to not overthink and still overthink.

You got it. And on a more broad level, knowing better but not doing is the root of all maladies.

And brings out questions about free will, agency, self-control, volition... and more.

These days I am fond of 2 books that actually touch on this very topic: "Grit" and "Ego is the enemy".

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#465

Post by selimthegrim »

Jensson wrote: post #367
whatsreal wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see the argument. I hope I'm not mischaracterizing is by saying your position is something like: because I can look up the best and what that looks like it is boring to strive for it. The difference for me is I haven't experienced what it is like to be good. You know how an olympic gymnast makes insane feats of body control appear easy? I have no idea what that feels like. (and I never will, in my upper 30s I a…

People have treated me like a genius wherever I go. I got invited to do research in my freshman year in college. To me being among the best at something isn't very interesting, its just going through the motions, have gone through it many times. It gets boring quick, instead of focusing on one area I just went into new ones because it isn't fun to be among the best. But that gets tiring as well. Made lots of money wo…

You should have gone to a college where that wasn't special.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#466

Post by ycombinete »

dusted wrote: post #34

I'm not especially smart, or happy, but, personally, I don't know how to be it, or what it feels like. I know pleasure, but being in a constant pleasurable state is not what is meant by happiness as far as I know. Slavoj Žižek (someone who does seem to be especially smart): “Happiness was never important. The problem is that we don't know what we really want. What makes us happy is not to get what we want. But to dre…

I can’t stand Zizek’s verbose nonsense. In this one paragraph he makes like 5 absurd statements one after the other, with such confidence and certainty that they look smart.

The closing sentiment takes the cake for me. A neat little shanty of the mindset of the communist smart men.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#467

Post by necovek »

alberth wrote: post #136
necovek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean are not tied to intelligence? If you use your smarts to conclude that having a spouse will negatively affect your happiness, don't have one. A very intelligent person should be able to figure out a way to improve their finances. The article makes the distinction between well-defined problems (eg. increase my monthly income) and poorly defined problems (eg. find a spouse that matches you for life), an…

> If you use your smarts to conclude that having a spouse will negatively affect your happiness, don't have one. You're assuming the negative. Your spouse can be a huge overall help in achieving happiness. > A very intelligent person should be able to figure out a way to improve their finances. It's not that simple. You could be exceedingly smart but medically handicapped, which leads to lower paying jobs. Or could h…

> You're assuming the negative. Your spouse can be a huge overall help in achieving happiness

I am not assuming anything, but explaining that, in theory, one could decide to have or not to have a spouse to increase their happiness — if they could reasonably deduce what the outcome would be, which they can't.

I was mostly tongue-in-cheek in relation to a spouse: that's a "poorly defined problem" that, according to the article, intelligence does not help with.

> It's not that simple

Oh, agreed. But we are talking about averages, and there is a known correlation between intelligence and financials.

Statistics, unfortunately, never says anything special about any single case.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#468

Post by necovek »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #463
jrochkind1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! And the main theory of the article is barely discussed in current comments thread, but to me novel and very thought-provoking: The model of "well-defined problems" vs "poorly-defined problems" and the hypothesis that what we call "smart" is usually being good at solving well-defined problems, but it's being good at solving poorly-defined problems that might correlate with happiness, and being good at solving wel…

On the other hand, my experience is that the smartest people I know are very effective at simplifying / formalizing poorly defined problems and then solving the resultant well-defined problems.

So why are they not happier on average?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#469

Post by kiawe_fire »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #419
throw__away7391 wrote: post #272

I have noticed that a lot of/majority of "regular people" tend to coast along on the back of others as a way of life. If "smart people" are perceived by friends and family as being problem solvers, many will route their problems to a "smart friend", someone who seems to have their life somewhat in order or always have the answer to everything. I used to get an endless stream of requests for everything from technical…

> it comes at a high cost In addition to what you mentioned, there is a hidden cost of responsibility. Once we advise people, they start holding us responsible for the result. Something goes wrong? It's now our fault.

This is something I’m struggling with at work.

If I take the initiative to build something that I think will be helpful, or fix something that’s broken in someone else’s project, then I suddenly “own” that thing.

Which is ok, until I get 20 things piled on me that I now “own”, and I can no longer keep up with them all.

Suddenly I’m the impediment to getting anything done, because everyone turns from “collaborative problem solvers” into “users of my thing”, and when any of the things need more things added to it, then my “things” are no longer just tools to make their jobs better.

They are now, instead, obstacles somehow keeping everyone from doing the things they were managing to do (less efficiently and less comfortably) before.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#470

Post by necovek »

davidguetta wrote: post #345
necovek wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article covers this as well: the author claims that studies show that all of those different intelligences correlate, so it is not very useful to categorise them individually. The thing that is a main driver to "climbing to higher positions" is usually desire and motivation, which is a cultural trait. Intelligence has a high correlation because there are plenty of motivated people across all levels of intelligenc…

> The article covers this as well: the author claims that studies show that all of those different intelligences correlate, so it is not very useful to categorise them individually. I would strongly doubt that they correlate tbh.. where would the "virgin math genius" cliché would come from ? I have been versed into various socio evonomic and hobby environement over my life, and have met natural geniuses in several un…

> I would strongly doubt that they correlate tbh.. where would the "virgin math genius" cliché would come from ?

Article talks of scientific studies supporting that claim: you doubting it and sharing your anecdotal experience does not change what the stats say.

I do welcome you to challenge those studies (that's what science is all about), but that's not done with "doubting" them on HackerNews.

(Oh, and cliches are just that, cliches: they were never universally true, which is why we don't use words like "facts" for them)

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