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Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

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Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#461

Post by trasz »

illiac786 wrote: post #456
trasz wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are we really doing this? Are you really serious? See, there's your problem: when you realise facts don't match your beliefs, you start "are we really" instead of reconsidering those beliefs. >Besides the fact that most of the country is firewalled off from foreign media Foreign media is easily accessible in China using VPN. Meanwhile, Chinese (or non-western in general) media is pretty much entirely unknown in US.…

This is trolling. You are purposefully answering beside the point or using false comparisons. Example: * china is firewalled off * you: oh but there’s VPN. you are really impacting the quality of the discussion, I would love to understand why you’re dining this though. Bored or do you have an agenda?

Have you ever wondered why things that doesn't match your state propaganda appear to be a trolling? I'd love to understand why are you doing this: are you bored, uneducated, or just US shill?

I mean, the fact that you're not making sense should be obvious even to you, as you can't provide even a single argument to support your "point of view".

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#462

Post by illiac786 »

trasz wrote: post #461
illiac786 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is trolling. You are purposefully answering beside the point or using false comparisons. Example: * china is firewalled off * you: oh but there’s VPN. you are really impacting the quality of the discussion, I would love to understand why you’re dining this though. Bored or do you have an agenda?

Have you ever wondered why things that doesn't match your state propaganda appear to be a trolling? I'd love to understand why are you doing this: are you bored, uneducated, or just US shill? I mean, the fact that you're not making sense should be obvious even to you, as you can't provide even a single argument to support your "point of view".

No, what I wonder is why you make a lot of statement like "state propaganda" without knowing which state I live in and without quoting any source. Please prove a/ my state (Germany) is doing propaganda and b/ I am only listening to this propaganda.

Also, you're sentences do not make sense. "Why you are doing this" => what is "this", you forgot to define it.

Meanwhile, China is a country where people live in fear of publicly expressing their opinion, this is well documented. 10s on the web finds this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Chin...

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#463

Post by trasz »

illiac786 wrote: post #462
trasz wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever wondered why things that doesn't match your state propaganda appear to be a trolling? I'd love to understand why are you doing this: are you bored, uneducated, or just US shill? I mean, the fact that you're not making sense should be obvious even to you, as you can't provide even a single argument to support your "point of view".

No, what I wonder is why you make a lot of statement like "state propaganda" without knowing which state I live in and without quoting any source. Please prove a/ my state (Germany) is doing propaganda and b/ I am only listening to this propaganda. Also, you're sentences do not make sense. "Why you are doing this" => what is "this", you forgot to define it. Meanwhile, China is a country where people live in fear of p…

Okay, so you’re shilling for somebody else’s country. A bit sad, but it’s not for me to judge.

> Also, you're sentences do not make sense. "Why you are doing this"

That’s your sentence, I just quoted it.

>China is a country where people live in fear of publicly expressing their opinion

Just like the US - you don’t have any protections against an employer firing you for something you said in your free time, because it “goes against company values”.

You’re also mistaking freedom of press with freedom of speech, but again, that’s a minor mistake in this context.

But most of all: you still hadn’t shown any actual data to back your ideas.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#464

Post by illiac786 »

trasz wrote: post #463
illiac786 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what I wonder is why you make a lot of statement like "state propaganda" without knowing which state I live in and without quoting any source. Please prove a/ my state (Germany) is doing propaganda and b/ I am only listening to this propaganda. Also, you're sentences do not make sense. "Why you are doing this" => what is "this", you forgot to define it. Meanwhile, China is a country where people live in fear of p…

Okay, so you’re shilling for somebody else’s country. A bit sad, but it’s not for me to judge. > Also, you're sentences do not make sense. "Why you are doing this" That’s your sentence, I just quoted it. >China is a country where people live in fear of publicly expressing their opinion Just like the US - you don’t have any protections against an employer firing you for something you said in your free time, because it…

Explain to me how companies and state are the same.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#465

Post by trasz »

illiac786 wrote: post #464
trasz wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so you’re shilling for somebody else’s country. A bit sad, but it’s not for me to judge. > Also, you're sentences do not make sense. "Why you are doing this" That’s your sentence, I just quoted it. >China is a country where people live in fear of publicly expressing their opinion Just like the US - you don’t have any protections against an employer firing you for something you said in your free time, because it…

Explain to me how companies and state are the same.

In democratic countries they are not, because the society can control the state. In US they pretty much are, because the companies control the state. In particular, in US the company can fire you on the spot, strip you of healthcare, and make sure you won’t be able to find another job simply because you said something - anything - it doesn’t like. And it’s all legal.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#466

Post by illiac786 »

trasz wrote: post #465
illiac786 wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain to me how companies and state are the same.

In democratic countries they are not, because the society can control the state. In US they pretty much are, because the companies control the state. In particular, in US the company can fire you on the spot, strip you of healthcare, and make sure you won’t be able to find another job simply because you said something - anything - it doesn’t like. And it’s all legal.

So I think I'm getting your point slowly. It's not that China is great but rather you think the US are deeply corrupt.

It's a valid point to think autocracy is better than corruption.

I disagree on the level of corruption in the US I think, as far as I understood you. I do not deny there is corruption though.

I would be interested in knowing the level of corruption in China but I think the autocratic grip on the press is too strong to have any valuable data.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#467

Post by throwaway894345 »

leereeves wrote: post #458
throwaway894345 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one here claimed that every problem has been solved by public policy.

You suggested that personal choice was just a distraction from policy-making, but one of your own examples, cigarettes, shows otherwise. Personal choice works.

There was a national campaign against tobacco. Moreover, no one is accidentally buying cigarettes like they’re buying carbon. It’s not like cigarettes were added to every product in unknown quantities and the public managed to avoid purchasing them. Similarly, people can’t simply opt out of carbon—it’s not like people were previously waltzing up to the counter and asking for some carbon, and now they’re not doing it any more. If that’s your “personal responsibility” example, it’s pretty desperate.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#468

Post by Ygg2 »

stale2002 wrote: post #433
Ygg2 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a fantastical example, but I doubt US would look kindly to sedition. US doesn't look kindly to someone endangering their energy supplies. Let alone territorial integrity

That is where you would be wrong. People in the US are free to talk all they want about fantastical topics. In fact, in Texas people make political comments about independence frequently. In Puerto Rico, there have even been literal votes, where the people actually voted on what they want to do with this US territory, and independence was one of the options. Further examples of these topics coming up, are the frequen…

> People in the US are free to talk all they want about fantastical topics.

It's one thing to talk between US people on various topics. Another is for head of foreign state to covertly enter your country and espouse a topic that's controversial and could cause problems for you down the line.

> And to give a more historical example

To give a more recent historical example. Election of Donald Trump. And the role Russia played. Steele dossier non-whistanding.

From what I gather, merely buying up trolls and doing some marketing was enough for US to have hissy fit, over it.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#469

Post by stale2002 »

Ygg2 wrote: post #468
stale2002 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is where you would be wrong. People in the US are free to talk all they want about fantastical topics. In fact, in Texas people make political comments about independence frequently. In Puerto Rico, there have even been literal votes, where the people actually voted on what they want to do with this US territory, and independence was one of the options. Further examples of these topics coming up, are the frequen…

> People in the US are free to talk all they want about fantastical topics. It's one thing to talk between US people on various topics. Another is for head of foreign state to covertly enter your country and espouse a topic that's controversial and could cause problems for you down the line. > And to give a more historical example To give a more recent historical example. Election of Donald Trump. And the role Russia…

> It's one thing to talk between US people

It's not just talking though! Instead it is actual votes, in actual territories, about becoming independent from the US. Like the votes that have happened in Puerto Rico.

If there was a vote in Taiwan, and they voted to officially say that they are independent (although they are independent already, they just haven't officially said so), I can assure you that the mainland would not treat such a case as how we literally have allowed Puerto Rico to have such votes.

That's why this is a false equivalence. In Puerto Rico we literally have allowed independence votes. Whereas regarding Taiwan, if they change the name on an embassy, China threats to bomb them, even though Taiwan is already independent, and this has been the case for 70 years.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#470

Post by trasz »

illiac786 wrote: post #466
trasz wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In democratic countries they are not, because the society can control the state. In US they pretty much are, because the companies control the state. In particular, in US the company can fire you on the spot, strip you of healthcare, and make sure you won’t be able to find another job simply because you said something - anything - it doesn’t like. And it’s all legal.

So I think I'm getting your point slowly. It's not that China is great but rather you think the US are deeply corrupt. It's a valid point to think autocracy is better than corruption. I disagree on the level of corruption in the US I think, as far as I understood you. I do not deny there is corruption though. I would be interested in knowing the level of corruption in China but I think the autocratic grip on the pres…

Thank you! Indeed that would be a (rather rough) first approximation. It's more complex than that though.

First, I'm not convinced that US is less autocratic than China. European countries of course are, but US is not a functioning democracy anymore; it's corporations who decides how the Congress will vote, not citizens.

Second - I think we might be using a different definition of "corruption". In US many mechanisms that would normally be considered corruption are legal, and thus aren't technically a corruption.

And yeah, would be great to have more reliable numbers for China. I don't think that's due to the "grip"; rather, it's a cultural thing: Chinese don't seem to value openness same way we do. At the same time, China is absurdly huge; I'm not sure we can have reliable numbers for all of the geographical Europe, and China is twice that.

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