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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#461

Post by threeseed »

DavideNL wrote: post #300
hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

> Apps will use near-field communication technology and other mechanisms to track us So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. The point is, Apple should not be the one dictating what users can and can not use; Example: on macOS you can disable SIP. 99% of the people i know do not even know what SIP is, nor that this possibility exists. However, if we/Developers/researchers/etc. want it, th…

> So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved.

So the world of malware, viruses, data exfiltration, phishing etc is "solved ?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#462

Post by coldcode »

pchristensen wrote: post #248
superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

For many (most?) users, Apple's restrictions, especially sideloading, protect users from bad actor app owners (looking at you, Facebook). To me, allowing sideloading is like allowing chemical weapons to be used in war. Yes, it's a new tool and capability at your disposal, but it's also available to every powerful and unscrupulous participant.

As soon as side loading or their own app stores are allowed, all sorts of companies may require that. Maybe most big companies will stick with Apple's.

As an iOS developer, hardening the 10k-ish apis that exist in iOS will be mostly impossible to do in a short term given the attack vectors would now be outside of Apple's control, probably resulting in incompatibilities and bugs. Android is a horrible platform already given the myriad of different OS versions that exist (and often are not updated by the users) that you have to support.

I also wonder what the law requires as to switchover to the new rules, new OS releases or going back X versions or something? Is there are time frame?

Imagine also being an app developer and having to build/test releases for multiple app stores that include different payment gateways. Without a solid and secure API environment in the OS, how do you manage that with screwing up? iOS has always been easy to do since you only have to support one major OS back. A couple jobs (like 7 years) back our Android app was a nightmare to manage, as we had multiple OS release/phone suppliers that rarely got bug fixes in at all and never at the same time, making fixing/testing some things a nightmare. Might be better today, but I remember how much of a pain it was.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#463

Post by 6510 »

jachee wrote: post #416
stale2002 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how much does it cost to run the App Store globally? Do have the numbers? I think that anyone who thought about this for even a second would come to the conclusion of "It almost certainly doesn't cost anywhere near the amount of revenue that comes from it". So the answer is, probably not a lot, compared to revenue.

I dunno… I figure just the bandwidth costs, not to mention data center/cloud costs, for the constant stream of apps being deployed/updated is pretty significant. I could expect them to be moving multiple terabytes of data per hour.

Its nothing compared to the piratebay.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#464

Post by j-pb »

dijit wrote: post #310
j-pb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that we didn't get our apps. I'm still waiting to be able to use my iPad to write code. To be able to use the iPad as a platform for tools that contain their own WASM ecosystem of user purchase-able plugins. To use a browser on iPhone and iPad that is actually secure. iPhone and iPad are little addiction machines, with little value for productive work that goes beyond email and powerpoint. These legislations g…

To be perfectly fair here, you're responding as if "productivity" means "Code" and that's not exactly true. For the overwhelming majority of people: coding is not productivity. What is? Checking email, jotting down notes, recording meetings and transcribing/dictating them, joining meetings and having reliable video/audio. Being able to respond to an email with a little drawing is _absolutely_ a killer feature for pro…

> means you already have everything you need.

Your lack imagination of how much better software development could be given the right interfaces, and interaction modes, is somewhat representative of how the stagnation of iPad OS has crippled our optimism and taste for futurism, constantly improving user experiences and new models of computation.

The iPad has amazing input capabilities, from the pen to laser scanning that could all be used to further improve developer experiences. Be it by augmenting your scrum board, to sharing code annotations with your coworkers, or foregoing coding completely and turning flow-charts to code directly.

But sure, let's all be middle management, and write emails all day.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#465

Post by threeseed »

judge2020 wrote: post #423
blfr wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's credible that the interoperability requirements are going to be used to smash end-to-end encrypted messaging Why and how? I already use Signal to handle the plain old, almost completely unencrypted text messages. It has no impact on security of Signal-to-Signal communication.

My take on this is that they want iOS to integrate RCS directly into Messages, given tons of other features are already widely supported by the os [0][1][2]. Google Messages (runs on top of RCS) currently only provides encryption when both sides are using Google Messages, so unless Apple and Google create a unified standard it won't be E2EE. 0: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/callkit 1: https://developer.ap…

RCS is such an awful protocol that is seriously going to harm users.

It was clearly designed to allow governments to maintain their ability to monitor user communications at scale.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#466

Post by laserlight »

vorpalhex wrote: post #431
laserlight wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is a fair amount? Who decides that and how?

The market, through competition.

Thanks for the clarification, because your previous comment seemed to contradict.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#467

Post by martimarkov »

DavideNL wrote: post #300
hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

> Apps will use near-field communication technology and other mechanisms to track us So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. The point is, Apple should not be the one dictating what users can and can not use; Example: on macOS you can disable SIP. 99% of the people i know do not even know what SIP is, nor that this possibility exists. However, if we/Developers/researchers/etc. want it, th…

The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it. Used to happen to my parents all the time on Android. They'd install random apps and the website will "guide" them how to install this app by going to settings and enabling "untrusted developers".

This is my issue with all these devs screaming at apple. Your customers chose a product for whatever reason. Don't like it? I don't care - respect their choices. It speaks volumes to me how much they will respect me and my privacy when they want to optimise for their own profits instead of my XP and privacy.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#468

Post by tsimionescu »

joshstrange wrote: post #238
sph wrote: post #6

Happy that I might be able to install something else than Safari. I want the Gecko engine on iOS. Sad that being in UK probably means we'll ignore it because "Brexit." I got a text the other day telling me that, since we've left the EU, roaming charges are back. Hurray! Without making this about politics, this is a great step forward. Still unsure how Apple & co. will make their proprietary video and messaging platfo…

> Happy that I might be able to install something else than Safari. I hope you like Chrome then. > I want the Gecko engine on iOS. It will probably exist in some official capacity (not just the open source wrappers like IceWeasel or whatever they call it) but it will probably get about as much love as it does on Android which is to say not much at all. Also the market share will be <1% if I had to guess which means n…

As a happy exclusive user of Firefox on Android (and PC), I have yet to meet any sites except legacy corporate apps that had any sort of problem with FF in the last 1-2 years at least.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#469

Post by bzxcvbn »

Zenst wrote: post #103
superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

Oh, I'm sure Apple can drag this out for years and year in the courts lobbing health and safty arguments etc.

First time they're out of compliance, the fine is 10% of their global annual revenue. Then 5% of their daily average revenue until they comply.

Second time they're out of compliance, the fine doubles.

If they still breach compliance, they get investigated for systematic non-compliance. The Commission can then impose structural and behavioral changes.

Or Apple can stop providing service in the EU. But they're not going to say goodbye to a fourth of their global revenue. They will comply.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#470

Post by mritun »

I think California should add legislation to check the power of the European car makers. Make sure that the German cars interoperate with the Ford components and can be serviced by other independent car dealerships as well. BMW and Porsche should also share their advertising numbers.
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