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Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

today.duke.edu

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Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so explain all the other countries with harsh drug laws that don’t have Nixon or minorities to oppress? Japan, Singapore, Sweden, etc.

You could take a swing at it and see how it goes. The person you're replying to has said what they believe the cause is. You're free to propose other ones for other countries. My explanation would be that the US drug war was aggressively international.

He proposes a causal mechanism, it’s fair to point out that it doesn’t explain why other countries are strongly anti-drug, without offering an alternative hypothesis.

The US drug war is international with respect to a few drug producing countries, but had very little influence elsewhere, such as in Asia. In my home country of Bangladesh the recent proposal is to make the death penalty available for drug traffickers and dealers. Nixon had no influence in Bangladesh (and in fact is strongly disliked because he supported Pakistan in the independence war).

Anti-drug sentiment arises out of cultural attitudes. Drug use is viewed as anti-social, because it often makes you less suitable for work, and degenerate. Some cultures are less forgiving of this than others. This is true in America and other highly religious countries, like Bangladesh, Iran, and the Philippines. But it’s also true in certain countries that aren’t highly religious but place a high cultural priority on industriousness, such as Sweden and Japan.

So I suspect you’ve got the Nixon anecdote backwards. Nixon didn’t cultivate anti-drug attitudes out of racism. The harnessed a reactionary sentiment against 1960s liberalism—which included trying to normalize drug usage—to stoke existing Puritan attitudes against drug use. His racism was in treating drug use as an issue especially relating to Black people, as opposed to being a vice common to white people and Black people alike.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#462
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being aggressive. Please stop. I wouldn't contest that more people die from alcohol than marajuana. That wasn't the issue under discussion. The issue is, which is worse for society. Part of why I find your comment so aggressive is because you're being very sharp with me, but you don't realize you aren't talking about the same thing. > This is blatantly false. Find me 1 study that shows definitively that MJ is…

>You're being aggressive. Please stop. If my comment is what you consider to be overly aggressive maybe you need to get out more. All research is BS therefore opinion is king is one of the weakest arguments I have ever heard. BTW your not so subtle digs are uncalled for.

Flagged.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather deal with someone high on cannabis or drunk on alcohol? To collect data, visit all the hotels, restaurants, bars, police, security guards, and entertainment venues in your area and ask all the front line employees this question. Or even who you would rather drive around. I guarantee everyone would rather deal with someone high on cannabis, who might ask for extra snacks or drive slow and be unlikely…

But omg cannabis users get so lazy and have no motivation... /s

Nobody's arguing that.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#464
post #404
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without opinion on the relative damage of both, I'll note that considering this a logical statement is really flawed. I can't understand what you are saying here. > You can pretty much always find "studies arguing for both sides" on an issue, but that doesn't mean much in and of itself. Just trying to cut off the expected "studies show X" comments before they get started. Because if studies aren't definitive, which…

> I can't understand what you are saying here. My point was that you are actually very rarely in the case that studies are in conflict to the point that the best you can do is personal experience. It's the exception, not the rule. To paraphrase Churchill: science is the worst system we have for understanding these sorts of things, except for all the others.

> My point was that you are actually very rarely in the case that studies are in conflict to the point that the best you can do is personal experience

I didn't make my point very clearly, but my actual view is that only the researchers who perform a study and their immediate scientific peers are able to determine whether a study is reliable and what conclusions can actually be drawn from it. I say this as someone who worked in academic research.

> To paraphrase Churchill: science is the worst system we have for understanding these sorts of things, except for all the others.

Preaching to the choir, there. I'm not arguing against science.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#465

The Lead Exposure Elimination Project ( https://leadelimination.org/ ) is an organization that's working to solve this problem internationally. I've been giving money on a monthly basis and have been blown away by their progress.

> Experts suggest that lead paint is now one of the most important current and future sources of lead exposure, as well as the most tractable source to address. https://leadelimination.org/factfile/ Why is it so popular in the US? Is it better? Cheaper? I'm quite shocked to see it's still happening. Lead in pain has been forbidden for interiors in Germany since 1921 (exterior since 1989)...

It was one of the 'best' exterior and trim paints available for a time.

Not easy to remove from old window sills or concrete ledges. It only gets removed somewhat during necessary window and door replacements.

So it is ubiquitous in older houses and flats. Doesn't matter if it is 1 million USD, the lead will be somewhere if it is old enough. Particularly attics and basements, or anywhere with grindy old doors or windows -- not safe for children.

The plumbing also has lead, either through lead pipes directly or iron pipes with leaded solder or other high lead content.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has never made sense to me is that the IQ effects aren't equally visible across income/class groups, but we know there are millions of wealthy people living in old housing in Boston and NYC and Providence and so on. Lead levels in those houses must be just as high, right? But those kids aren't experiencing the same IQ effects. Surely this suggests that something else is a bigger factor?

If you have money, and it’s your house then you get the old paint stripped when you repaint. If you are buying a home, and there is lead paint, then you negotiate down on the price to compensate for removal. Landlords of shitty apartments or houses just slap a new coat of the cheapest possible paint over the old.

99.99% of the time there is zero cost reduction due to the presence of lead paint in a normally maintained home. All old homes have it or are assumed to have it.

Stripping is uncommon and can't remove all lead paint from porous surfaces anyway -- like concrete blocks, walls, or ledges.

Landlords use a special lead blocker paint if required to pass inspections. Otherwise -- who knows.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t explain it though because lead paint covered by regular paint is quite safe unless your children eat chunks of the wall (quite possible).

Eating chunks of intact wall is unlikely, but surfaces like window sills are very risky because they constantly flake. That’s the nuance of lead mitigation. You can be completely compliant and safe for children with some lead paint on intact walls. Any tenant can force their landlord to remove lead in those high risk areas (at landlords expense!) if there’s a young child but few renters know about this option.

Not true. Abatement is required. That is not the same as removal. Lead blocker paint or otherwise taking the surface out of contact is usual solution.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy people are more likely to have good childcare (nannies, after school activities) where kids spend less time unsupervised and able to, for example, eat paint chips. For that matter, stuff like chipped paint is less likely to be left in a deteriorating state by more affluent owners.

Just as a matter of common sense and gut-check plausibility, what are we talking about when we talk about "eating paint chips?" Does eating a couple flakes lower your IQ in a measurable way? Seems very unlikely. What are we talking about, then? Do we imagine kids to be shoveling paint chips into their mouth day after day? Surely that's a pretty small number of children (if it's any), nowhere near enough to suggest ge…

It's from dust on surfaces, toys, and hand to mouth. All toddlers should be tested. There is no surety! Any soils or dust could be contaminated from the heyday of leaded gasoline and paint.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#469

A 150 USD RO/DI filter can remove all of this stuff. Black, white, poka dot. Buy one and run your drinking water through it. Also comes in handy when the water goes out. You can turn off from the mains and have clean water. Also pure enough to use in your radiator or water your venus fly trap! Highly recommend.

That covers water not dust, which is thought to be the bigger culprit if we are talking about kids.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#470
post #403

I was recently horrified to learn that the baby glass bottle I had been using with my baby had lead paint on it. https://tamararubin.com/2021/12/sailor-themed-glass-nuk-baby... Apparently, it's considered to be acceptable by current standards. Despite the fact that babies will obviously touch the bottle (and the paint) and then put their hands in their mouth. I bought glass bottles because I wanted to avoid plastic t…

Of course it's considered acceptable, lead doesn't just dissolve when you touch it and it's not like the paint is 100% lead. Our bodies are pretty resilient and you shouldn't be scared of super tiny trace things in the environment. Your baby probably receives much more lead exposure by breathing.

Your body doesn't heal from lead exposure, it gets stuck in there until you die.
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