Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#461

Post by ls15 » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 11:28 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #460

ls15 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you are talking about. Many people are working on inherent problems, such as UX issues, blockchain trilemma, regulatory integration and so on. That does not mean that there are no external factors too. Why can't we have a discussion about crypto without labeling people as some kind of dishonest idiots? But back to the point, do you think the external factors that I mentioned do not count? I mean dar…

> Why can't we have a discussion about crypto without labeling people as some kind of dishonest idiots? Because 99% of crypto boosters make the other 1% look bad. Admit and address the money laundering, scamming, cult behavior, and planet-destroying aspects of it first, then let's talk.

> Because 99% of crypto boosters make the other 1% look bad.

Many bad painters make Da Vinci look bad?

> Admit and address the money laundering, scamming, cult behavior, and planet-destroying aspects of it first, then let's talk.

I assume you are not using fiat then too, if these standards are a precondition for you to consider a monetary system.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#462

Post by otterley » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #461

otterley wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't we have a discussion about crypto without labeling people as some kind of dishonest idiots? Because 99% of crypto boosters make the other 1% look bad. Admit and address the money laundering, scamming, cult behavior, and planet-destroying aspects of it first, then let's talk.

> Because 99% of crypto boosters make the other 1% look bad. Many bad painters make Da Vinci look bad? > Admit and address the money laundering, scamming, cult behavior, and planet-destroying aspects of it first, then let's talk. I assume you are not using fiat then too, if these standards are a precondition for you to consider a monetary system.

It's relative, not absolute. No system is perfect, but cryptocurrencies have demonstrated themselves to be far worse than the alternative on each of these dimensions.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#463

Post by ls15 » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:53 AM UTC

otterley wrote: post #462

ls15 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because 99% of crypto boosters make the other 1% look bad. Many bad painters make Da Vinci look bad? > Admit and address the money laundering, scamming, cult behavior, and planet-destroying aspects of it first, then let's talk. I assume you are not using fiat then too, if these standards are a precondition for you to consider a monetary system.

It's relative, not absolute. No system is perfect, but cryptocurrencies have demonstrated themselves to be far worse than the alternative on each of these dimensions.

I think there is a citation needed here, because I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse. I think that fiat is the ultimate war money that has cost more human lifes than any other monetary system so far.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#464

Post by cryptica » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 11:00 AM UTC

hihihihi1234 wrote: post #102

cryptica wrote: post #92

I like cryptocurrencies but this high electricity usage has kept me away from Bitcoin in the early days. I've since come to forgive Bitcoin for this ridiculous energy usage because of how important a problem Bitcoin is solving (the world desperately needs provably scarce, deflationary hard money). It's just unfortunate that people chose to focus on Bitcoin and not some other PoS crypto which uses less electricity...…

Why does the world need deflationary money?

So that the richest people don't have unlimited money. Compounding returns yield unlimited money for those at the top. The real economy does not experience compound growth like the economy of numbers does.

Those at the top of the pyramid have unlimited money due to compounding returns facilitated by infinite money printing. So long as the real economy treats those unrealistic numbers as if they represent real economic value, everyone else is enslaved to those at the top.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#465

Post by cryptica » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 11:20 AM UTC

esarbe wrote: post #207

cryptica wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also been hoping for the same thing. The faster the current system falls apart, the less painful it will be. The years of daily grind combined with a feeling of hopelessness is what hurts people the most and causes lasting resentment.

The problem is that with the current system falling apart that will be it for modern human civilization. I wouldn't be surprised if the technological level fell back a few hundred years. Our civilization is too interdependent with no place being able to sustain any level of advanced technology on itself. We traded all the resilience we had for "efficiency". Our current system is very brittle and if it fails, it fails…

I disagree with this. IMO, it's just propaganda that the elites use to maintain control. Look at all the economic 'miracles' in Germany, Japan, South Korea, ... Pretty much any time a developed, highly educated country had fallen, it managed to return to even more prosperous levels than before.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#466

Post by otterley » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #463

otterley wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relative, not absolute. No system is perfect, but cryptocurrencies have demonstrated themselves to be far worse than the alternative on each of these dimensions.

I think there is a citation needed here, because I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse. I think that fiat is the ultimate war money that has cost more human lifes than any other monetary system so far.

> I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse

I can't help you if you intentionally choose not to pay attention.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#467

Post by ls15 » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:10 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #466

ls15 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a citation needed here, because I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse. I think that fiat is the ultimate war money that has cost more human lifes than any other monetary system so far.

> I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse I can't help you if you intentionally choose not to pay attention.

I don't see any actual arguments, just strawman attacks.

Edit: since the end of the thread is reached and I cannot reply to your reply - funny how you proved my point as well, by still avoiding actual reasoning. Have a good day.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#468

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #467

otterley wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse I can't help you if you intentionally choose not to pay attention.

I don't see any actual arguments, just strawman attacks. Edit: since the end of the thread is reached and I cannot reply to your reply - funny how you proved my point as well, by still avoiding actual reasoning. Have a good day.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#469

Post by otterley » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #467

otterley wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how crypto has proven itself to be inherently and fundamentally worse I can't help you if you intentionally choose not to pay attention.

I don't see any actual arguments, just strawman attacks. Edit: since the end of the thread is reached and I cannot reply to your reply - funny how you proved my point as well, by still avoiding actual reasoning. Have a good day.

Thank you for proving my point!

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#470

Post by qqqwerty » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:11 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #393

qqqwerty wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would take decades just to recoup the equipment costs. It currently takes about 12-18 months to recoup the equipment costs ignoring electricity costs This assumes running the miners 24/7. If you only run your equipment a few hours a day in the summer months when your excess solar power is most abundant, then a decade feels about right.

While I never took the time to quantify this, as I said, I always had a sense that this was not a viable idea. In other words, my educated guess told me it would be a waste of time to even evaluate the concept. > If you only run your equipment a few hours a day in the summer months when your excess solar power is most abundant As a point of interest, in my region (Southern California) the point of peak efficiency is…

For reference, a mining rig that pulls 5kW will likely cost you around $20-30k and will generate a significant amount of heat. You would likely need to install a ventilation system to deal with the heat even in the winter months.

It is also worth mentioning that in places with net metering, the excess electricity isn't "free". Excess electricity gets sold back to the grid at retail rates, and the proceeds from that are used to offset consumption during non-daylight hours. So unless you have a significant credit on your utility bill every year that you cannot utilize (most utilities will not pay you cash for the excess), then mining crypto with you "excess" solar would just result in paying for more electricity when your panels are not producing.