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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#461

Post by lordloki »

scrollaway wrote: post #370
throwaway55421 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact the opposite is true. If everyone gets coronavirus in a two week period, ICU is less overwhelmed for the rest of the year. A lot of susceptible people die, of course. If you attempt to spread it out and succeed, you're at 100% capacity basically all of the time, plus 99% of people get to deal with the fact that coronavirus restrictions are utterly miserable. Omicron has probably made all of this irrelevant an…

I'm vaccinated and effectively boosted. I've been going out tons and not being careful at all. I kissed my girlfriend recently who had as it turns out Omicron at the time. I have yet to catch it. "Everyone" is a significant stretch. Yeah its seriously contagious but you, an engineer, should know better than deal with such absolutes. Viruses burn out long before they infect everyone, even without vaccines and even if…

You might want to knock on some wood.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#462

Post by eli_gottlieb »

lordloki wrote: post #457
Daishiman wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the disease has changed. Are you ignorant of that?

The disease has changed to reduce the effectiveness of the vaccines to the point where they don't show any significant ability to stop the spread. The current vaccines may help the individual against Omicron but does nothing to help the collective. Are you ignorant of that?

Right, the solution is to improve and update the vaccines.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#463

Post by scrollaway »

bmeski wrote: post #455
scrollaway wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think specifically this has to do with corporate interests? Doesn’t Occam’s razor say that it’s just the fact the pandemic is destroying society and there is immense pressure from everywhere to accelerate usually very slow and bureaucratic processes because the risk reward ratio is completely different than the one for a vaccine for more contained diseases?

Yes, this virus is brutal and highly dangerous, which is why we need to do everything we can to stop it, not just somethings that are highly lucrative. Why hasn’t the news or our medical governance brought up the fact that a small intranasal injection can greatly prevent transmission? Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026810/

We're having trouble since the beginning of the pandemic getting people to wear a simple cloth mask. You want them to inject stuff up their nose on a regular basis now?

When you say "why isn't x happening" I'd like to invite you to think about what x would look like, in practice, and what it is you actually are expecting.

This has nothing to do with how lucrative it is. Just how practical. Note the author doesn't even say this measure can replace PPE and other preventative measures.. just add to them.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#464

Post by bmeski »

scrollaway wrote: post #463
bmeski wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this virus is brutal and highly dangerous, which is why we need to do everything we can to stop it, not just somethings that are highly lucrative. Why hasn’t the news or our medical governance brought up the fact that a small intranasal injection can greatly prevent transmission? Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026810/

We're having trouble since the beginning of the pandemic getting people to wear a simple cloth mask. You want them to inject stuff up their nose on a regular basis now? When you say "why isn't x happening" I'd like to invite you to think about what x would look like, in practice, and what it is you actually are expecting. This has nothing to do with how lucrative it is. Just how practical. Note the author doesn't eve…

The masking is an odd one because they told us not to do it, then to do it.

I’ve also read claims that these respiratory viruses are on the order of microns and most masks are pointless, unless specifically designed for this.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#465

Post by huntertwo »

lordloki wrote: post #458
huntertwo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another explanation, the one that's more probable, is that omicron is much more infectious than the previous variants. Actual studies that look at evidence and test hypotheses seem to suggest that mRNA vaccines are effective.

Those studies don't really exist yet for Omicron, so you are working on faith not science.

Nope, here is a study

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#466

Post by scrollaway »

throwaway55421 wrote: post #449
scrollaway wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm vaccinated and effectively boosted. I've been going out tons and not being careful at all. I kissed my girlfriend recently who had as it turns out Omicron at the time. I have yet to catch it. "Everyone" is a significant stretch. Yeah its seriously contagious but you, an engineer, should know better than deal with such absolutes. Viruses burn out long before they infect everyone, even without vaccines and even if…

Let me know next month, I guess.

Happily. And i fully realize that i obviously am not immune to this and could catch it at any point. My point was that just because it's highly transmissible doesn't guarantee transmission.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#467

Post by huntertwo »

huntertwo wrote: post #305
baskethead wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The vaccines don’t work at all against omicron This is just false and if you believe in the science, you believe in the scientific method, the scientific method shows that this is false. See this https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc211927 Plenty of people are going to the hospital with omicron so it isn't mild for everyone. It's milder than previous strains and it's especially mild for vaccinated people.

Link is broken here is the link https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#468

Post by sh4un »

timbit42 wrote: post #397
sh4un wrote: post #186

The problem in Canada is that the health care is so bad that people are worried that if something goes wrong you are screwed. My son broke his arm and he has to wait 3 weeks for a cast. I've been waiting for a general doctors appointment for 6 months yet, been waiting 4 years to have a compressed disc looked at. It's sad. To make it worse it's almost impossible to find the vaccine and when you do it's a several hour…

I live in the poorest province in Canada and this doesn't even happen here. You go to Emerg and you get a cast. Canadians don't have to worry that if they get sick that they are 'screwed'. If you haven't had a compressed disc looked at in 4 years, you're not trying. Even if you don't have a family doctor, it's not difficult to get referred to a specialist. As for the vaccine, everyone is in a mad rush for it right no…

No post body was provided.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#469

Post by simonh »

ls15 wrote: post #325
simonh wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they can believe what they want as far as I’m concerned. Completely physically excluding them from society is enough. If they want to ‘protect’ themselves from the vaccine they have that right, absolutely, but the rest of us also have the right to protect ourselves from them.

> the rest of us also have the right to protect ourselves from them How does your right to protect yourself lead to a right to exclude someone else from society?

They’re a danger to themselves and others. I have family members that work in health care that are affected by this. I don’t see why any further justification is necessary.

I don’t agree with those equating this with crimes and prison. Those are not equivalent, these people aren’t criminals and rounding up or imprisoning them is abhorrent. But to participate in society is about obligations as well as rights, and I think withdrawing certain privileges in the face of wilful disregard of one’s obligations is reasonable if it is necessary to protect others.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#470

Post by susiecambria »

ryandrake wrote: post #375
throw0101a wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses. Of course they need a vaccine. Just because you don't have symptoms does not mean (a) that you're not carrying it, and (b) can't infect someone who may not be as healthy as you. Further it's difficult to predict ahead of time how an individual will react to being infe…

It's so weird. For a website whose audience largely works in tech, where thinking in terms of systems is part of our education and career training, there is a shocking lack of systems thinking here when it comes to COVID. While it might not make sense individually for a particular person to get vaccinated, it does make sense when you think in terms of the societal system. We are faced with a society-sized problem tha…

And, let's not forget that public health is about a collective, community- or population-wide approach. In other words, a system.
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