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Web3? I have my DAOts

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Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#461

Post by rgallagher27 »

koonsolo wrote: post #396
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The critique being made in the original article, I think, is that it's extremely hard to find a hypothetical use case for blockchain technology that can't be done without blockchain technology. A wine exchange seems to pretty clearly fall into the "things we can do pretty well without crypto" category, so one needs to explain what crypto is bringing to the party that makes it a marked improvement. In this particular…

The difference is that you can pick the exchange where you trade your token. Because the ownership of the token is really yours. If the central party charges 1% transaction fee, it's a 1% transaction fee. If they only open on weekdays, you can't trade in the weekend, etc. When it's your token, you can trade it wherever you want.

You might want to avoid mentioning transaction fees when trying to promote the benefits of crypto...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#462

Post by peoplefromibiza »

ThomPete wrote: post #419
lottin wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the basic problem is ownership rights over physical objects can't be enforced without coercive power, but blockchains and smart contracts can't use coercive power, therefore they would have to rely on an external entity to enforce such rights. But then the system is no longer "trustless", "permissionless", or "censorship-resistant", and therefore we have none of the supposed benefits of blockchains but we do have…

Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. People who are trying to combine crypto with physical assets are a shrinking number. Focus on digital and its absolutely enforcable, to an extent not even governments can accomplish.

> Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce.

how?

it's all based on cryptographic keys, if I stole the keys, how can blockchain block me, without someone intervening?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#463

Post by peoplefromibiza »

koonsolo wrote: post #416
lottin wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you can't trade on weekends is not because some technological problem, it's because there's no demand for trading on weekends. Do you think the technology suddenly stops working on weekends?

I own both stocks and crypto. I would LOVE to trade stocks in weekends!

people love heroin too.

that's why rules around potentially addictive things are needed.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#464

Post by CryptoPunk »

gls2ro wrote: post #279
gfodor wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great theory but in practice in this specific case the legal system will be forced to capitulate. Either a country has to ban all crypto mining or not enforce GDPR on chain nodes. Seems obvious which way it will land in the long run.

I really don't think a legal argument can be made in case of GDPR breach saying "we cannot enforce GDPR because our tech does not support this" I think if you are a business you should choose technology that allows you to be compliant with the law.

>>I think if you are a business you should choose technology that allows you to be compliant with the law.

Unless the law violates personal liberty, which GDPR does.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#465

Post by biztos »

shagie wrote: post #287
Ygg2 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope Facebook does not guzzle same amount of energy as Bitcoin. We don't need another nation level energy guzzler for a spy/disinformation network.

An article from a bit ago to put approximate scale of the services - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ethicallivingblog/20... > Climate researchers say two Google searches emit 7g of CO2 – the same as boiling an electric kettle. > ... > If Wissner-Gross is correct then 3,500 tonnes of CO2 (500m x 0.000007 tonnes) are emitted every day through all of us performing Google searches. Or put another way, 1.28m tonn…

Whoa, so Ethereum is burning 64 kWh per transaction?

I wonder if there is any mapping of “gas” to electricity. I guess it would have to be approximate but still, it’d be interesting to estimate how much electricity a particular smart contract consumed per execution.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#466

Post by mbesto »

ThomPete wrote: post #419
lottin wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the basic problem is ownership rights over physical objects can't be enforced without coercive power, but blockchains and smart contracts can't use coercive power, therefore they would have to rely on an external entity to enforce such rights. But then the system is no longer "trustless", "permissionless", or "censorship-resistant", and therefore we have none of the supposed benefits of blockchains but we do have…

Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. People who are trying to combine crypto with physical assets are a shrinking number. Focus on digital and its absolutely enforcable, to an extent not even governments can accomplish.

> Focus on digital and its absolutely enforcable, to an extent not even governments can accomplish.

The Winklevosses came up with an elaborate system to store and secure their own private keys. They cut up printouts of their private keys into pieces and then distributed them in envelopes to safe deposit boxes around the country, so if one envelope were stolen the thief would not have the entire key.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/technology/bitcoin-winkle...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#467

Post by darkFunction »

derac wrote: post #296
bsnsmsksjs wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll bite. A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made. The purchaser, if sold via an NFT, could resell that ownership with no interaction with the winery until claiming the wine at a later date. This means both parties no longer need any relationship between the initial sale and claiming the eventual goods. The winery will simply be able to wait for someone to return with proof of ownership a…

Excuse my ignorance, how does the buyer of the token know it hasn't been redeemed yet?

You burn the token to redeem it.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#468

Post by darkFunction »

dmitriid wrote: post #418
darkFunction wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think instead of reading what I wrote, you read "you need a blockchain to do this". The anti-blockchain narrative on here is constantly attacking the strawman of "literally everything must be decentralised". I'm arguing that a decentralised medium of exchange through which separate points of centralisation can interact is still a useful construct. You're comfortable with your assets being codified in a thousand dif…

So... Why did you write it? Of course you don't need blockchains to do this. To reiterate: The only thing you could transfer is some meaningless numbers. What makes them meaningful is some central, trusted authority that will accept these numbers as proof of something. But then, since you depend on that authority to verify this... you don't need blockchain.

The blockchain facilities standardised transfer across a decentralised medium. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make my point. You could code alternatives to all the use-cases mentioned, but when you have an existing platform on which to interact, why bother? You want the game developers to implement the winery's API?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#469

Post by lottin »

biztos wrote: post #456
lottin wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how 'creating value' works. If you create something that sells for $100 but cost $100 to be produced, you have created zero value, and if it cost $120 you have destroyed value. In economics this is called added value, it's defined as the value of the output minus production costs. The sum of all added value over a period of time amounts to the GDP.

But if I build an ASIC computer for $100 and sell it to some miner for $120, have I (the ASIC company in China) not created $20 in value? If Bitcoin goes to zero I still made my $20.

Correct.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#470

Post by biztos »

lottin wrote: post #390
tshaddox wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about property deeds, contracts, etc. The fact that the laws of physics still apply in the world and thus people can still physically take things from you, harm you, etc. is hardly an argument against any specific method for establishing and recording ownership or contracts.

No, the basic problem is ownership rights over physical objects can't be enforced without coercive power, but blockchains and smart contracts can't use coercive power, therefore they would have to rely on an external entity to enforce such rights. But then the system is no longer "trustless", "permissionless", or "censorship-resistant", and therefore we have none of the supposed benefits of blockchains but we do have…

What if they could have that power?

Imagine something like Robocop hooked up to the EVM, if you put your RealID in the escrow contract and then the ubiquitous camera network is unable to verify that you honored the transaction, well then you have 15 seconds to comply…

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