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YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

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Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#461

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

You might very well be right and of so these are some good points, but there is a bigger theme here:

Many of us who used to defend Google before now don't.

Some because Reader.

Some because the nymwars/Google+ (the single identity part).

Some because Google shuttered Google+ after they had made it the only social network some of us ever liked.

Some because Google is sucking the oxygen out of markets and then leaving.

Some because of how eager they are to obey China.

Some because of the James Damore story.

Some because search has been more or less broken for a decade and nobody cares.

Point is: there is a limit how many times and how badly you can disappoint/hurt users before even the most ardent fans gets tired of it.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#462
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube Shorts (TicToc competitor) is pure evil. If I accidentally click on it I can find myself two hours later after watching hundred videos I can't even remember anymore. Sure it's high engagement, but it's truly bad for user satisfaction and long-term user retention. On top of that they blatantly and prominently push their political agenda in "news" section. But I don't think there is deep evil thinking behind di…

> blatantly and prominently push their political agenda Only if you consider egalitarianism and diversity as political issues. To most of society they are universal values so it’s not contentious.

Well, they are political issues, because they don't exist in a vacuum and nuance exists.

For example, what do you mean by egalitarianism? Equality under the law? Well, Republicans/Liberals tend to agree with equality under the law, whereas Leftists and Gender/Racial Identitarians don't. California recently tried to repeal 1960s civil rights legislation preventing discrimination by race, precisely because they'd like to discriminate on the basis of race...because to them, egalitarianism doesn't mean equality under the law, but rather that the law should have weighted parameters necessary to transform societal outcomes into equal measures by arbitrary population, irrespective of those population inputs. Mind you, these are the people claiming to be egalitarian. As Ibram X. Kendi says himself, "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." To many (most?) people, that isn't egalitarianism...so it's political. It's clearly not a universal value when it's actually a bundle of competing values claiming the same word.

What about diversity? What, that diversity is just good? Is that the point? Because what exactly do you mean? What if there was a group of liberal people who had democratically made their society in accordance with what they felt aligned with liberalism, and were suddenly being told that a major influx of right wing evangelical Christians were to be allowed to come into their society (and be given exactly the same voting rights as them)? What about a group of frat bros? Is this the kind of diversity you mean? You just accept that diversity is indiscriminately a net positive? What exactly is the mechanisms that makes that be the case? Surely it matters what the cultures are that are being made to coexist, what degree to which they have common ground, what degree to which their respective strengths cover for their respective weaknesses, the rate at which the cultures can tolerate the encroachment of the other while still remaining cooperative rather than hostile, the degree to which each culture has its elements preserved independently of the product of the two cultures interacting, and the degree to which the cultures are encouraged to and are actively assimilating. I mean, this is just scratching the surface. There are many factors that determine whether or not diversity is actually a good thing, and it often comes down to magnitude and rates, which are seemingly unwelcome from that sort of conversation. And then there is the (now tired) distinction between superficial diversity and diversity of thought. There is the (racist) notion that diversity of skin color will result in diversity of thought, proposed by exactly the sort of people who actually detest diversity of thought, and just want to see different colored faces in the crowd. Again, this is just scratching the surface of this conversation.

So to say "it's not contentious" is pretty ridiculous, because these are completely loaded terms that mean completely different things to completely different people who ultimately have completely different goals for society. They're not universal values.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#463
post #404
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the UX for Youtube Shorts to be so horrible I don't watch more than one video a session. It doesn't support landscape, and if you make the mistake of watching it to the end it starts over but with a darkened screen, forcing you to hit Back twice to get out of it. Who the hell watches a one minute video and then goes "gee, I really want to hear just the audio from that over again right now"?

Of course it's horrible. It's a cheap copy of a Chinese app which itself is designed horribly. YouTube added the feature out of pure panic instead of try to create something better, the poor result is expectable.

I mean, to be slightly pedantic, TicTok is not a horrible design. It is a genius design with a horrible purpose. It’s genius because it’s extremely successful at its core purpose: driving engagement metrics for ad revenue. In terms of raw engagement, an endless stream of videos injected into your brain is way better than something like YouTube, where you’re normally doing some “heavy lifting” to curate your own content via search or subscriptions. TikTok is probably the best implementation (so far) of an addicting content consumption platform. By “best,” I mean it has the best engagement metrics.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#464

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

Maybe not in this particular case (though I'm not sure about that), but they certainly do care what people post (irrespective of their ToS). Remember the "communist bandit"/"50-cent party" fiasco? [1][2]

Also, their terms of service are not divine unambiguous laws. They makes the the rules themselves, and enforce them as selectively as they please.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23223219

[2]: https://reclaimthenet.org/youtube-was-censoring-china-propag...

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#465

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

Abusive to who? To YouTube?

This is one step removed from not being able to criticize [elided so as not to send this thread the wrong direction; use your imagination].

It was a handjob. He wasn’t wrong. And his comment abused no one, merely a corporation.

If you’re arguing that an ML algorithm picked up on their comment and deemed it problematic enough to shadowban him forever with no appeals process, then that’d be even worse. But doing it manually is nearly as bad.

Remember, you can’t just “create a new account” on YouTube. You have a fan base. The only reason we heard his message at all today was because YouTube chose not to restrict his ability to post videos too; other moderators might. Especially against someone so abusive, who is clearly harming the wider community… right?

I think this type of thing is going to become a bigger deal over the next decade. Being shadowbanned from Twitter would kill me; I’ve put years of effort into it. But we’re one handjob away from people being fine with it.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#466
post #360

The majority of YouTube traffic comes from mobile devices (this can be observed in Google Ads for any video campaign), which is losing market share because of Tictoc. Google will do whatever it takes to monetize every inch of their investment. By turning off dislikes, users will be forced to engage with additional content. This is also visible on the other side of the spectrum - Google is pushing heavily integrated c…

Youtube Shorts (TicToc competitor) is pure evil. If I accidentally click on it I can find myself two hours later after watching hundred videos I can't even remember anymore. Sure it's high engagement, but it's truly bad for user satisfaction and long-term user retention. On top of that they blatantly and prominently push their political agenda in "news" section. But I don't think there is deep evil thinking behind di…

Clearly you don't know about actual evil people in the world, and what they do from their high position in global companies or governments.

It's always been like they I think. Good people can't imagine just how evil people can be because it's so far from their own reality.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#467
post #81

Hacker News has a similar problem with comments: net_votes = up_votes - down_votes You need at least two of the above variables to get an idea of both the direction and magnitude of the voting. Hacker News provides only one: net_votes. YouTube used to provide up_votes and down_votes, effectively providing all three. Now YouTube has reduced its information to up_votes, so they're now down to one variable in the equati…

> The difference between 102+/100- votes and 2+/0- votes is large, but invisible on this site. I wonder whether using a ratio instead of difference would help?

The main difference is a +102/-100 post is "controversial" whereas a +2/-0 post is not. It's interesting to see both what the "net score" is and how "intense" it is.

If by "ratio" you mean showing both the net score and the total number of votes, I guess that would be one way to solve this. But a single ratio score (i.e. net score divided by total number of votes) is probably just going to look weird and useless.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#468

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

Abusive to who? To YouTube? This is one step removed from not being able to criticize [elided so as not to send this thread the wrong direction; use your imagination]. It was a handjob. He wasn’t wrong. And his comment abused no one, merely a corporation. If you’re arguing that an ML algorithm picked up on their comment and deemed it problematic enough to shadowban him forever with no appeals process, then that’d be…

> Being shadowbanned from Twitter would kill me; I’ve put years of effort into it.

This doesn't sound like healthy engagement. When people talk this way about online video games we consider it an addiction issue that needs addressing.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#469

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

Abusive to who? To YouTube? This is one step removed from not being able to criticize [elided so as not to send this thread the wrong direction; use your imagination]. It was a handjob. He wasn’t wrong. And his comment abused no one, merely a corporation. If you’re arguing that an ML algorithm picked up on their comment and deemed it problematic enough to shadowban him forever with no appeals process, then that’d be…

> And his comment abused no one, merely a corporation.

Corporations are people too you know.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#470

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

Abusive to who? To YouTube? This is one step removed from not being able to criticize [elided so as not to send this thread the wrong direction; use your imagination]. It was a handjob. He wasn’t wrong. And his comment abused no one, merely a corporation. If you’re arguing that an ML algorithm picked up on their comment and deemed it problematic enough to shadowban him forever with no appeals process, then that’d be…

Are you sure it would be that bad? Social Media is a horrible addiction.

Look at me, dead account and I'm still posting here.

Why not make a new account? Because I realized this is all worthless shit.

Whether anyone sees my comment or not, it doesn't fucking matter, it's just people puking their thoughts on a screen.

Which is exactly what I'm doing right now, it's a fucked up compulsion and addiction I've developed over a decade.

I was happier in 2005 when all I had was a few niche forums where we actually worked on shit together.

These general discussions are garbage.

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