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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's the fallacy in teaching everyone the same things? That seems like a good way to equalize life outcomes and give everyone the required skills for succeeding in contemporary society. What did you mean by equalize life outcomes then? again, what is your position and proposal?

My position is that kids should be taught math at an earlier age and schools should be properly staffed and funded to ensure positive learning outcomes for all students regardless of their socio-economic background because that will lead to more equal life outcomes.

Then you and TimTheTinker basically agree.

The only noteworthy difference is defining acceptable failure rate, which neither of you did.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My position is that kids should be taught math at an earlier age and schools should be properly staffed and funded to ensure positive learning outcomes for all students regardless of their socio-economic background because that will lead to more equal life outcomes.

Then you and TimTheTinker basically agree. The only noteworthy difference is defining acceptable failure rate, which neither of you did.

There is no way to fail in what I'm proposing because there are no grades. Everyone gets feedback on how to improve and students can receive all the help they need to keep up with the curriculum.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#463

The irony is that this is probably going to exacerbate social injustice. Cupertino kids are going to be taking extracurricular math through RSM or Kumon in elementary school, and then the Cupertino school district (in the article) says that they have no intention to comply with the recommendations. SF kids aren't going to be exposed to algebra until 9th grade and then get a rude awakening in college when they realize…

[deleted]

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#464
post #212

I’m Danish and not at all interested in the politics of it, but there can be a case for teaching algebra late. We do it in Denmark, because it’s the subject children have the hardest time learning, and having too many of them fail too early kills their interest in math. We still teach algebra in grade 7-9, but we’ve gone through the social experiments of teaching it at different ages, and have lost entire generations…

I am a big proponent of getting rid of the age-segregation as is it is now and widening the age range, but I'd like to see a citation on Denmark teaching Algebra later and the data on this. I read turn-of-the century math books that are years ahead in rigor and subject matter, and that seemed to fare well. There was a lot of stigmatizing of AP classes by the great "equalizers", but let the kids who can excel, excel. I am not at all a believer the "leave no child behind" philosophy. Even college-educated kids we hire now seem to be behind the group just 5 to 10 years younger in common sense, math, writing, history, and problem-solving skills, at least in the interviews I have given over the past 15 to 20 years. The odd superstar shows once in a while, but they will always thrive in any situation. Personally, I grew up with a lot against me, but I pushed and was pretty much self-taught, and I like to think I did good. I don't believe in trying to administer or legislate intelligence. Instant facts from Google does not equate to knowledge and wisdom.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#465

Not from California, but I took algebra in 7th grade - it was the advanced math course in my public middle school. It was a much-welcomed safe haven from the other classes - the middle schoolers here were actually SMART. In that class I sat next to a guy who taught me how to program the TI-84. We would spend all class programming, making games, and just learning. Now, over a decade later, I am a professional software…

Doesn't sound like your smart classes ever taught you to read the article. The recommendations aren't mandatory and will likely be adopted by schools that are underfunded and struggling. If you're concerned about the gifted kids at those schools, consider that gifted kids aren't the center of the universe.

Ad-hominem attack + condemning gifted kids seems like a pretty glib way to argue.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#466
post #212

I’m Danish and not at all interested in the politics of it, but there can be a case for teaching algebra late. We do it in Denmark, because it’s the subject children have the hardest time learning, and having too many of them fail too early kills their interest in math. We still teach algebra in grade 7-9, but we’ve gone through the social experiments of teaching it at different ages, and have lost entire generations…

There was an informal study done in the early 20th century, where a superintendent decided he didn’t think math was that useful and told the 4 poorest elementary schools in his district to stop teaching it. (He chose the poorest schools because he knew the parents wouldn’t put up as much of a fuss as at the wealthier schools.) They still taught how to count, read clocks, and make change, but besides that they had no…

Let's see that link, por favor

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#467
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the "S" is pretty broad and I'm guessing there are multiple majors at reputable universities that don't require all that.

Sure, if your S is sociology, your math requirements will be 0-2 units of calculus and a statistical methods course taught in the department. The secondary school preparation for such a program is called "stop taking math in 11th grade."

You're being snide and not actually constructive. E.g. here are requirements for molecular and cellular bio at UC Berkeley, which requires a 1 year sequence covering calculus, stats and combinatorics. Linear algebra and differential equations are not requirements.

http://mcb.berkeley.edu/undergrad/major/major-requirements/r...

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you and TimTheTinker basically agree. The only noteworthy difference is defining acceptable failure rate, which neither of you did.

There is no way to fail in what I'm proposing because there are no grades. Everyone gets feedback on how to improve and students can receive all the help they need to keep up with the curriculum.

1) What if a student refuses to attend school?

2) Can no student advance until everyone has mastered the material?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#470
I remember in 2nd or 3rd grade sitting with my classmates on the floor and the teacher wrote something like 4 + ? = 7 on the board.

Without even mentioning the word variable, algebra, or any other terms, they began teaching us about these concepts.

They started with a problem where the answer is so easy everyone can get it. No formalization to start with, just, here's a simple example that you can immediately relate to. Only after doing this do you need to learn and understand the formalization and theory of the concepts.

I find the same is true in programming. Often to learn something new, it's better to copy and run a code snippet that does the new thing. Only after running it, seeing the result, seeing it work is the formalization and theory needed. Then you just rinse and repeat to get better and better at it.

As an aside: I think had the teacher asked us for a name as well instead of using the ?, we could have even started learning about using variables earlier. By our own laziness as kids, someone would likely have gotten tired of writing out "my number that I'm trying to find" + 3 = 7 and thought about shortening it by some degree. It would have felt empowering to have that insight come from a class mate, and if not, the teacher could always introduce it on their own.

ETA

I also had a college professor who started each new unit by explicitly motivating why we were going to learn, what we were going to learn, and how it related to what we just learned.

That context was a huge help in learning the material.

It's the principle of experiential learning. Pushing back such a basic concept of math would only disadvantage society.

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