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The latest campus cancellation is different

theatlantic.com

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Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#461

Post by angelzen »

whatshisface wrote: post #387
jwond wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't have any power, other than to annoy the institution. The only power here is the power that MIT has over the people they book to speak, and since MIT doesn't want to be annoyed, they canceled the speaker. The ability to get others to do what you want them to is absolutely a form of power.

I can't believe that Twitter culture has this much power but they're using it all on cancelling MIT speakers and not even trying to improve US policy.

A large number of US universities make signing a DEI statement a precondition for employment. Some also require an annual progress report on DEI targets. Dorian Abbot had the temerity to propose an alternate framework, MFE. Some factions can't tolerate alternative perspectives, and thus Dorian had to be cancelled.

https://www.newsweek.com/diversity-problem-campus-opinion-16...

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#462

Post by WalterBright »

mhh__ wrote: post #439
WalterBright wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Writing quality and wit has definitely declined I concur. The skewering of Sarah Palin "I can see Russia from my house!" by SNL was brilliant. SNL's skewering of Trump just wasn't funny. Edit: Ok, if you disagree, note that everyone recognizes the SNL "I can see..." quote. Any memorable ones from SNL's Trump skits?

Alec Baldwin was pretty good, no? I always found Trump-satire a little bit symbiotic. He thrives on non-boring politics, satire only normalizes his actions - i.e. mocking war hero's, regardless of what you make of the war they fought in, is just inhuman and satire only serves to form a grotesque hyperreality which we saw explode at the beginning of this year with all this nonsense over the election.

Was he? I didn't watch all his Trump skits, but the ones I did were not memorable.

Trump should be a gold mine for parody, but SNL muffed it.

Jay Leno was always good and skewering both sides. He never took it seriously, and his targets usually found them funny, too. Perhaps Baldwin's jokes fell flat because they sounded more like a "let's all pile on him because we hate him" form of bullying rather than funny.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#463

Post by einpoklum »

q1w2 wrote: post #215
einpoklum wrote: post #95

Prima facie, this is a troubling story. But after reading it I noticed the author info at the bottom, and this made me somewhat suspicious. The Council for Foreign Relations, of which Mounk is a member, is a highly-problematic US foreign policy think tank: https://monthlyreview.org/product/wall-streets-think-tank/ Then another comment here on HN got me looking at Persuasion: Apparently, Mounk runs a group/community d…

Debate the argument, not the argumentator.

But I'm not debating, I'm evaluating. And when you only hear one side of an argument, prudence is merited.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#464

Post by mhh__ »

WalterBright wrote: post #462
mhh__ wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alec Baldwin was pretty good, no? I always found Trump-satire a little bit symbiotic. He thrives on non-boring politics, satire only normalizes his actions - i.e. mocking war hero's, regardless of what you make of the war they fought in, is just inhuman and satire only serves to form a grotesque hyperreality which we saw explode at the beginning of this year with all this nonsense over the election.

Was he? I didn't watch all his Trump skits, but the ones I did were not memorable. Trump should be a gold mine for parody, but SNL muffed it. Jay Leno was always good and skewering both sides. He never took it seriously, and his targets usually found them funny, too. Perhaps Baldwin's jokes fell flat because they sounded more like a "let's all pile on him because we hate him" form of bullying rather than funny.

FWIW I think that says more about SNL than Trump, just seems a bit crap really from my admittedly non-nostalgic European-elitist perspective.

If you've heard of the private eye, they had some very well observed pieces on trump e.g. Trump likes it when people call him an orange racist because it plays to his base, call him a poor businessman and a fraud and he's not so happy.

P.S. on the subject of trump, Michael Lewis's book "The fifth risk" is very good. It's a good insight into the man, his team, and basically everything you shouldn't do in their shoes.

My favourite piece of trivia from the above book is that Trump never fires anyone personally. The whole "Yuh fired"-schtick from the TV show is just pantomime.

He was also apparently unable to understand that money raised in his name to fund a transition team wasn't his own personally, which didn't exactly surprise me but should shatter any illusion of rationality.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#465

Post by gruez »

WalterBright wrote: post #460
akomtu wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not gonna work. Those who organise this activity have enough influence to convince AG to ignore your case.

I'd politely ask the person holding me prisoner for his name, and if he doesn't step aside I'll inform him that I'll be charging him with kidnapping. Regardless of what the AG does. After all, what do you think will happen to you if you hold someone prisoner?

>I'd politely ask the person holding me prisoner for his name

"no"

>and if he doesn't step aside I'll inform him that I'll be charging him with kidnapping

You, as an individual can't charge people criminally. Civil suit is an option, but I suspect you won't get much in the way of financial compensation from a broke college student.

>After all, what do you think will happen to you if you hold someone prisoner?

Infliction of violence? Even if the AG doesn't make your life a nightmare, the optics might be bad enough that you'll lose your job.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#466

Post by akomtu »

WalterBright wrote: post #460
akomtu wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not gonna work. Those who organise this activity have enough influence to convince AG to ignore your case.

I'd politely ask the person holding me prisoner for his name, and if he doesn't step aside I'll inform him that I'll be charging him with kidnapping. Regardless of what the AG does. After all, what do you think will happen to you if you hold someone prisoner?

You may call them kidnappers for blocking a door in a public space, they'll accuse you of assault and file a lawsuit too (and unlike you, they'll have many buddies witnesses). The judge will dismiss both suits and tell you to not waste the court's time.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#467

Post by brigandish »

yummypaint wrote: post #165
brigandish wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this exactly the world that free speech / pro-liberty advocates want? No. The main consequence of speech that is being opposed should be… speech, not action to get that speaker's speech curtailed, whether by speech or other means. > I can also decide whether to patronize their business or not These people didn't have to turn up to the talk. That's not the same as cancelling a talk because someone said they do…

This post, like many in this thread, misrepresents what free speech is. Free speech protects us from government retribution, nothing more. I agree that it's bad form to lobby the university directly, but it's their right to do so, and the university has a right to change which speakers it invites. Having it any other way would be an attack on free speech. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of reli…

I’m not American nor do I live in the US nor am I subject to US law - is free speech impossible for me and all the billions of others in the world who are also in this same group, or is it perhaps you that has misunderstood and misrepresented what free speech is by conflating it with a legal provision in one jurisdiction, designed to help protect it from one entity?

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#468

Post by WalterBright »

akomtu wrote: post #466
WalterBright wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd politely ask the person holding me prisoner for his name, and if he doesn't step aside I'll inform him that I'll be charging him with kidnapping. Regardless of what the AG does. After all, what do you think will happen to you if you hold someone prisoner?

You may call them kidnappers for blocking a door in a public space, they'll accuse you of assault and file a lawsuit too (and unlike you, they'll have many buddies witnesses). The judge will dismiss both suits and tell you to not waste the court's time.

They'll be on video because I'll have my phone out and recording.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#469

Post by WalterBright »

gruez wrote: post #465
WalterBright wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd politely ask the person holding me prisoner for his name, and if he doesn't step aside I'll inform him that I'll be charging him with kidnapping. Regardless of what the AG does. After all, what do you think will happen to you if you hold someone prisoner?

>I'd politely ask the person holding me prisoner for his name "no" >and if he doesn't step aside I'll inform him that I'll be charging him with kidnapping You, as an individual can't charge people criminally. Civil suit is an option, but I suspect you won't get much in the way of financial compensation from a broke college student. >After all, what do you think will happen to you if you hold someone prisoner? Inflict…

> You, as an individual can't charge people criminally.

I can press charges. Violently holding people prisoner is a felony. It's not a joke.

> I suspect you won't get much in the way of financial compensation from a broke college student.

It'll be enough to matter to him. Future wages can be garnished.

> you'll lose your job

I don't want a job where I'm required to be a milquetoast.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#470

Post by krainboltgreene »

deadpannini wrote: post #380
throwaway984393 wrote: post #270

Actually it's not different. University lecturers have been protested or cancelled for decades for reasons unrelated to their topic, usually due to political beliefs or corporate interests that clashed with students' ideals. "Cancel culture" is specifically about "personal" societal reforms, which is what makes it different than the older complaints about general politics. Back in the day it was "edgy" to protest or…

Protesting isn't addressed in the article. Who in the 60s and 70s was invited to speak at a college or university, then later had their invitation withdrawn due to their support of the Vietnam war or corporate interests?

This is actually extremely googable and definitely happened way more than you think.
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