‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#461

Post by 7ewis » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 11:28 PM UTC

achow wrote: post #166

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

I have to agree with this.

Most of my immediate team are in another continent, others 100 miles away.

I'm used to working 'remotely' to my team, but still from the office. The office is my social space, where the company culture is, where I go out for lunch with work friends etc.

I've worked at my company for a while, so luckily already know a good number of stakeholders around the business. I hate to think how bad it would be for new starters joining the company and only really being exposed to their direct team.

Meeting people at the coffee machine or at a lunch area may not seem important but it's what made me love my workplace.

The C level has completely changed three times in my time here, but our culture lives on in the people. If it wasn't for those connections and sense of belonging, I may no longer still be working here.

I don't want to be forced into going back to my 3hr daily commute, but I wouldn't mind easing back into the occasional office visit.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#462

Post by awsthro00945 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 11:31 PM UTC

porker wrote: post #420

forz877 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone you meet at work needs to be your "Best friend forever and always." I just like talking to people. I like being able to go down the hall and solving a problem in 5 minutes that would take 3 days and 3 meetings WFH. I am "friendly" with many people in the office. I socialize with them. They aren't dear dear friends but they are acquaintances that have helped me out of tight spots and I helped them. I can'…

They sound like colleagues. As distinct from other employees or friends. Some of my best times were working in a university department. We did all this, though the talking to people outside your team was at proscribed coffee times in the staff lounge and sometimes over lunch. But they remained colleagues not friends. Outside the few parties a year we didn't go round people's houses. We collaborated and fought over wo…

>They sound like colleagues. As distinct from other employees or friends.

I think the point being made is that this is totally okay.

There's an undertone in this greater thread that "people you work with aren't really your friend" and it implies that these "not-really-friends" aren't pleasant to be around. But that's not necessarily the case. For many people, being around "colleagues" and making small chit-chat is enjoyable, desirable, and helpful, even if they aren't (and never become) your "friend".

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#463

Post by novok » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #443

imtringued wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that every city refuses to build housing. That is true in California but not in the US as a whole.

the economics are there for every city. Who's going to let housing be built if it devalues the houses they own?

When their property taxes go up a large amount too.

Prop 13 in California is a key thing cited as why NIMBYism is stronger than usual, because current entrenched residents don't feel the pain of their behavior.

Gov'ts also do not willingly pass something like prop 13 themselves, because they don't like to limit their ability to tax.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#464

Post by novok » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

drclau wrote: post #283

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH I think the divide between WFH and return to the office boils down to something surprisingly simple: how much longer does your current lease last and/or how much office property do you own. Companies that are about to have a lease expire, or are growing at a rate that they would need to soon lease an even larger building a…

> I think the divide between WFH and return to the office boils down to something surprisingly simple: how much longer does your current lease last and/or how much office property do you own. Something I need to point out: the office is still cheaper to run when empty, even if the corporation pays the lease. And as far as I know, no company pays extra for working from home, in fact the opposite seems to be sometimes…

I work in big tech, and management capabilities and oversight doesn't feel any less. Actually a bit more in a way.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#465

Post by slavapestov » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:06 AM UTC

ziggus wrote: post #38

Fine, you want to WFH? Awesome, expect a pay cut. Part of a modern white-collar salary has some expectations built into it, like the fact that people need to be compensated for the inconveniences of leaving their homes and coming to the office and therefore having to pay for things like childcare, cars, clothing, parking, etc. Don't have those expenses anymore? Then why should I compensate you the same as if you did?…

> therefore having to pay for things like childcare, cars, clothing, parking, etc.

Where do you idiots get the idea that remote workers don't need to pay for childcare, clothes or cars?

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#466

Post by pseudalopex » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:07 AM UTC

awsthro00945 wrote: post #462

porker wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sound like colleagues. As distinct from other employees or friends. Some of my best times were working in a university department. We did all this, though the talking to people outside your team was at proscribed coffee times in the staff lounge and sometimes over lunch. But they remained colleagues not friends. Outside the few parties a year we didn't go round people's houses. We collaborated and fought over wo…

>They sound like colleagues. As distinct from other employees or friends. I think the point being made is that this is totally okay . There's an undertone in this greater thread that "people you work with aren't really your friend" and it implies that these "not-really-friends" aren't pleasant to be around. But that's not necessarily the case. For many people, being around "colleagues" and making small chit-chat is e…

Distinguishing between colleagues and friends in no way implies being being around colleagues is unpleasant. But merely pleasant interactions don't justify making everyone spend time commuting they could spend with friends instead.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#467

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:15 AM UTC

slavapestov wrote: post #465

ziggus wrote: post #38

Fine, you want to WFH? Awesome, expect a pay cut. Part of a modern white-collar salary has some expectations built into it, like the fact that people need to be compensated for the inconveniences of leaving their homes and coming to the office and therefore having to pay for things like childcare, cars, clothing, parking, etc. Don't have those expenses anymore? Then why should I compensate you the same as if you did?…

> therefore having to pay for things like childcare, cars, clothing, parking, etc. Where do you idiots get the idea that remote workers don't need to pay for childcare, clothes or cars?

Remote workers don’t need to pay for commute costs to work; whether that means the family needs fewer total cars or simply fewer total miles on the same car doesn't change that it is a substantial savings.

Similarly, even if (as seems likely in most cases) childcare is still necessary, not having to do a triangle commute of home-dropoff-work and work-pickup-home reduces the likelihood of overtime costs for childcare, given a constant number of working hours.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#468

Post by heavyset_go » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

frumper wrote: post #239

fartcannon wrote: post #146

They sent around a form at my work asking everyone what their preference would be. The first guy replied to everyone with his preference: 100% wfh. Since he replied-all, so did everyone else. We got through about 20 employees, all stating their preference as WFH before a manager shut down the reply-all. A week later we got an email saying people wanted 2-3 days in office.

That sounds about right, except my organization landed on full return to office for nebulous "business reasons"

> except my organization landed on full return to office for nebulous "business reasons"

Multiyear leases and/or real estate investments.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#469

Post by MisterBastahrd » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:22 AM UTC

awsthro00945 wrote: post #460

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have a limited amount of time to invest in certain things in life, and it's better to invest that time independently of your work environment. Not saying that you can't ever have it, just that some day will be your last day at wherever you are, and those relationships don't always follow you to your next job.

The fact that I have a limited amount of time to invest in things is exactly why those things are necessary to have at the workplace. I like having fun, and I like making friends. Being limited on time, I want to maximize the percentage of time in my life that I spend having fun and I want to maximize the amount of opportunity I get to make friends. It's great that I have personal free time where I can do that, but w…

And as I stated, things change as life goes on. I'm not telling you these things to piss on your parade. I'm giving you perspective that you clearly don't have yet.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#470

Post by awsthro00945 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:33 AM UTC

pseudalopex wrote: post #466

awsthro00945 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They sound like colleagues. As distinct from other employees or friends. I think the point being made is that this is totally okay . There's an undertone in this greater thread that "people you work with aren't really your friend" and it implies that these "not-really-friends" aren't pleasant to be around. But that's not necessarily the case. For many people, being around "colleagues" and making small chit-chat is e…

Distinguishing between colleagues and friends in no way implies being being around colleagues is unpleasant. But merely pleasant interactions don't justify making everyone spend time commuting they could spend with friends instead.

>But merely pleasant interactions

I didn't say they are "merely pleasant". I said they are enjoyable, desirable, and helpful.