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Brave Search beta

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Re: Brave Search beta

#461

Post by jonathansampson »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #443
jonathansampson wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the correction. I used to call them hash-bangs (not sure where I picked up that habit in my ~25 years of industry experience), until I started seeing more people refer to them as shebangs . Oddly enough, while reading them out I would always say "bang, ". I'll try to refer to them simply as bangs (or perhaps something like search/filter bangs ) from now on

Because '#!' is a hash followed by a bang.

Quite obvious, but naming things is funny in the web-development world. We still call any asynchronous retrieval of data "AJAX," even though it rarely, if ever, involves XML :-)

Re: Brave Search beta

#462

Post by pmurt7 »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #444
mapgrep wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Person 1: Brave replaces existing ads, that’s bad Someone from Brave: actually we don’t replace existing ads at all, here’s why Person 2: no one cares what you do or don’t do with existing ads! I don’t have any connection to Brave but I find it odd they’ve become some kind of hate figure here on HN. Their iOS client IMO is quite good. Their privacy is miles ahead of the other options. But merely by trying to be priva…

I didn’t realize Brave had become a “hate figure” here but it seems like the discussion in this thread took a hard turn to the kind of conspiratorial, reactionary, nasty “gotcha” reply behavior I come to Hackernews specifically to avoid. In this thread are multiple examples of the Brave employee saying Thing A and just getting mean-spirited responses reframing A as negatively as possible as if it’s an argument retort…

This bullshit has nothing to do with Brave. Brendan Eich (Brave CEO) was cancelled years ago, and the mob is still after him. That's what going on really, it's cancel culture at its finest.

Re: Brave Search beta

#463

Post by smoldesu »

necessities wrote: post #458

About a year ago I tried a few different web browsers (chrome, safari, firefox, and brave) to see which had the best user experience and which one I thought had the most value to add to me as a user. I settled on Brave because; 1. I don't have to install a adblocker or any third party extensions out of the gate. - Third party ones never seem to do the job on the other browsers. 2. Their form of rewarding creators is…

It would be very difficult for Brave to become the "browser status quo" without advertisers finding new ways to enforce dark patterns or otherwise abusive systems.

Advertising is a bigger business than selling browsers.

Re: Brave Search beta

#464

Post by jonathansampson »

smoldesu wrote: post #420
jonathansampson wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm responding to users. You happen to have numerous comments here which aren't entirely accurate or fair, so I have responded to you a few times. Don't take it personal; if you publish something I feel is inaccurate, I'll post a response. Regarding user experience, I'm not just a developer of Brave, but I'm a user also ;-) Not only that, but I spend a lot of time speaking with users all across the Web, so as to unde…

Since you seem to know it all I'll just leave you be. My only actionable advice is that you should hire someone nicer to handle public relations, lest you bleed users from your own mouth.

I do believe I've been quite respectful with you. If at any time I was caustic, abrasive, or offensive, I apologize. It is certainly not my intention.

Re: Brave Search beta

#465

Post by dheera »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #191
lopatin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, why are you opposed to search ads? They are already targeted by your search query, so don't fundamentally rely on tracking data.

Since they're nearly indistinguishable from real organic search results, people click on them assuming the search engine found them the best result. This leads to two major problems: 1. Search ads are the primary source of malware and fraud on the Internet today. (Phishing emails are second.) Sites pretend to be other sites all the time, and to allow tracking and landing page behaviors, every major search ad provider…

> every major search ad provider allows ads to "lie" about the destination domain.

This seems like the real problem, not search ads as a concept

> So you may see an Amazon ad, it says it goes to Amazon.com, but actually directs through to realamazonlinkipromise.biz

Just disallow that? Problem solved.

If you want yet another filter, only allow public companies or companies that have raised >10M on Crunchbase to advertise, and have them verify that they are really who they are by asking them to put some string of your choosing in their DNS records.

Re: Brave Search beta

#466

Post by losvedir »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #191
lopatin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, why are you opposed to search ads? They are already targeted by your search query, so don't fundamentally rely on tracking data.

Since they're nearly indistinguishable from real organic search results, people click on them assuming the search engine found them the best result. This leads to two major problems: 1. Search ads are the primary source of malware and fraud on the Internet today. (Phishing emails are second.) Sites pretend to be other sites all the time, and to allow tracking and landing page behaviors, every major search ad provider…

> 2. Search ads use this placement as a form of extortion. If you run, say, Best Buy, you shouldn't have to buy search ads for "best buy", because obviously you're the best result. However, they have to, because if they don't, the search engine will sell ads to their competitors using their keyword, so people searching "best buy" get "Circuit City" as the top result instead. (Yes, I chose that reference in part because I don't want to shame any real current companies in this example for sleezy practices.) And since users click the top result (the ad), not the first organic result, Best Buy ends up paying for every click for every user who goes through Google/Bing/etc. to get to Best Buy.

One thing to note is that the cost of the ad is based on the landing page relevance (and even more so for branded terms), and so in your example Best Buy would be able to buy the ad for the "Best Buy" keyword for pennies (a rounding error on their SEM campaign, I'm sure), while Circuit City would have to pay a whole bunch for the "Best Buy" keyword.

Given that, I don't mind it so much. It's a good way for a competitor to get their name out there, but it's not really a sustainable practice long term for them. There's built-in pressure favoring the incumbent on their own terms.

Re: Brave Search beta

#467

Post by jay_kyburz »

distrill wrote: post #454
jay_kyburz wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Jonathan, here is my hot take on the issue. When a user installs uBlock Origin, they are attempting to protect themselves from ads, not just privacy, but because the ads themselves attempt to manipulate them into buying things. When Brave blocks ads in one place, but shows others ads instead, the users are not actually protected from the ads, any potential money that may have been generated by the ads is effective…

> When a user installs uBlock Origin, they are attempting to protect themselves from ads, not just privacy, but because the ads themselves attempt to manipulate them into buying things I'm not sure where you're getting this statistic. Most people that I know, myself included, aren't trying to protect themselves from buying things, rather from annoying ads that clutter everything up and slow everything down. Perhaps b…

I didn't quote any statistics. Perhaps I should have said, "some users" or I could have said "users are also protected from manipulation".

I think if you thought about it for a while you would object to a constant bombardment of messages that you are not cool enough, or popular enough, or attractive enough, or fit enough.

Or that when you searched for things you were shown the "best results" rather than whoever paid google the most for your attention.

Or if you were thinking of buying a thing one day, but decided not to because you decided you didn't need it, you might prefer not to be constantly convinced to change your mind and buy the thing. Buy the THING!

My iPad is too old for an ad blocker so I have to suffer constant abuse when surfing the web on it. Don't get me started on Apple.

Re: Brave Search beta

#468

Post by ajayyy »

Dah00n wrote: post #364
ppeetteerr wrote: post #235

I really like that they are pulling SO answers into their results: https://search.brave.com/search?q=strpos+php

Yes, if they asked for permission (and pay if asked). Otherwise it is the same as what Google was sued over. I wonder if they did ask first.

SO is CC BY-SA https://stackoverflow.com/help/licensing
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