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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#461

Post by FabHK »

malshe wrote: post #411
solipsism wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I need more information? A guy was putting his hand on his co-workers' knees! Often enough that people scurried from him! It's clear the implication is made that this is just a "Hindu" thing. That's wrong. It's not a Hindu thing. It's offensive to say it is. And the idea that my comments saying so are being flagged is also offensive. Comments like Eh... Can't we just bomb them as usual? ;-) are the ones tha…

I am also really surprised that you are being downvoted for this. This is not a cultural thing at all and assuming it away is terrible.

It is very much a cultural thing. What makes you think that it isn't?

In some cultures, men (non-romantically) holding hands is perfectly normal. In some cultures, a woman and a man shaking hands would be scandalous. In some cultures, touching somebody else's head would be considered extremely rude. The rules as to what constitutes acceptable behaviour, what constitutes sexual behaviour, etc. are clearly different in different cultures.

"Touch has a high degree of cultural relativity. Thus, the meaning of touch can only be understood in its cultural context (Guindon et al., 2017; Halbrook & Duplechin, 1994; Phelan, 2009)."

"Sexualization Of Touch: Americans, in general, have difficulty conceptualizing physical contact as nothing more than emotional nurturance and tend to avoid touch for fear of being misunderstood (Hunter & Struve, 1998; Zur, 2007a, 2007b)."

https://www.zurinstitute.com/touch-in-therapy/

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#462

Post by FabHK »

IgorPartola wrote: post #226

I am Ukrainian. Came to the US when I was 14. I may never be cool like all the hard looking dudes in movies and whatnot but I smile all the time because either I find something funny in what I’m engaged in or if I don’t that I try to think of it as such. I have always been this way and I can’t imagine not doing it. Also, I have read a few comments in this discussion about how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s…

> how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s are

Yeah, I wouldn't call it fake, just a different vocabulary, so to speak. You just need to mentally translate it into your cultural equivalent (smile = neutral face, “how are you?” = "hello", etc.)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#463

Post by Slow_Hand »

Clewza313 wrote: post #181
vbezhenar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in Russian actually. You're saying "how are you" ("как дела") after "hello" ("привет"), but you're not really expecting any meaningful answer other than "I'm OK" ("нормально") or "I'm fine" ("отлично"). But it might be one way to start a conversation when you want to tell something you don't like. Like "How are you? I'll live. What happened? ...". But it's more of closed friends conversation when you ca…

From now on, I need to start responding to "How are you?" with "Normal".

American here:

I did it last night with a cashier and she laughed and was, I think, amused by the novel response. It seemed to brighten her up a small amount. She then continued to make conversation by saying “Well let’s see if we can’t get you to better than normal.” That was slightly offputting and I wish she didn’t feel the need to take it there. I’m perfectly content with feeling “normal”.

I suppose the way I think of it is like dynamic range of expression. Normal is baseline and perfectly suitable. It’s where I like being. Great or bad are for special cases where I feel extraordinary.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#464

Post by sebmellen »

dazdaz wrote: post #303
sebmellen wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True! I have people tell me their bad news or downers pretty often when I greet them with “how are you?”, and my care or sympathy for the situation they’re in is not at all insincere. I’m half German, and my grandfather always found it absurd to visit the US and have everyone saying “thank you” and “sorry” and smiling all the time. His opinion was that this behavior devalued the true meaning of a “thank you” or a smi…

The phrase 'Ich entschuldige mich' is an abomination. The literal translation would be 'I excuse myself'. Instead, you're supposed to say 'Ich bitte um Entschuldigung' (I beg your forgiveness) - thus you're asking the person who was wronged for forgiveness. It should not be the choice of the wrongdoer to decide whether to be forgiven or not. Though to be fair, commonly it's used just as you described. If I remember c…

Yes, fair point, the "ent" is literally something like "de-," so you are "de-blaming" yourself or "freeing from blame."

But in common parlance, I think the phrase "Ich entschuldige mich" is really meant more to say "I apologize" than anything else. I guess this could be a place where descriptivists and prescriptivists differ in their interpretations (and I lean a bit more towards being a descriptivist).

I haven't studied German society closely enough to know what people really mean with this phrase, but this is how I've always interpreted and used it, and other people seem to use it in this manner as well.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#465

Post by Slow_Hand »

I’ve always enjoyed this kind of cultural comparison due to the perspective it brings to my own inherited behaviors (American).

Does anyone have recommendations of resources where I can read further comparisons? Is there a name for the study of these cultural differences?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#466

Post by cacarr »

"In the animal world bare teeth are considered to be a threat. Hence I think there is some instinctive fear of bare teeth built into our social perception system."

Except a human smile is more akin to a canine's greeting/appeasement grin. And much more so like a Chimp's play grin. There are toothy displays in mammals that are not threatening.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#467

Post by cacarr »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #325
Merem wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"After all, how could I genuinely wish a random German stranger a "Guten Morgen"..." By being a nice person, just like how one would hold open a door for someone else? Though, that aside, when you say "Guten Morgen", you aren't wishing anything. It's just being polite while at the same time, you are saying something about yourself. For example, you could simply say "Morgen" which would mean you are in a hurry, or, de…

This is exactly how "How are you?" is meant in American culture. It's not fake; greetings are culturally determined and especially the most common greeting phrases in any culture should not be treated literally but instead as part of a ritual exchange. "How are you?" "I'm well, and you?" "Great, thanks." It's just a ritualistic exchange.

The Japanese say something like "nice weather, eh?" (ii otenki desu ne? - to which one replies "sure is! - "so desu ne!") -- which is mostly just a semantically little-analyzed pragmatic sequence functioning as a casual greeting.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#468

Post by solipsism »

FabHK wrote: post #461
malshe wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also really surprised that you are being downvoted for this. This is not a cultural thing at all and assuming it away is terrible.

It is very much a cultural thing. What makes you think that it isn't? In some cultures, men (non-romantically) holding hands is perfectly normal. In some cultures, a woman and a man shaking hands would be scandalous. In some cultures, touching somebody else's head would be considered extremely rude. The rules as to what constitutes acceptable behaviour, what constitutes sexual behaviour, etc. are clearly different in…

You are talking about things you know nothing about. How familiar are you with various Indian cultures? This thing about putting his hand on coworker's knees, to the point that they avoid him, is very much not a part of Indian culture.

Yes, men holding hands is commonly seen.... when those men are close friends. There would be no people trying to avoid each other.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#469

Post by cacarr »

Many years ago I lived in a sort of dormitory in Tokyo. The Americans and Japanese residents understood each other's personal space preferences just fine, but it was amusing to note the look on some of the Japanese people's faces when the Italians greeted them with hugs and kisses.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#470

Post by solipsism »

baldfat wrote: post #377
solipsism wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I need more information? A guy was putting his hand on his co-workers' knees! Often enough that people scurried from him! It's clear the implication is made that this is just a "Hindu" thing. That's wrong. It's not a Hindu thing. It's offensive to say it is. And the idea that my comments saying so are being flagged is also offensive. Comments like Eh... Can't we just bomb them as usual? ;-) are the ones tha…

Imagine the horror of seeing two men walking holding hands because they are just friends. Many cultures have it where adult male friends hold hands and it just means that.

You're setting up a straw man. In this situation no one is talking about two close friends walking holding hands.

We are talking about a man inappropriately touching his coworkers. Not coworkers who also happen to be good friends. Coworkers who are actively avoiding him because of it.

The LIE being told, and being upheld by you, is that this is part of "Hindu" culture. Anyone saying that is extremely ignorant about India.

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