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EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

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461–470 of 538 posts

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#461
I've got to wonder how much child porn is on Proctorio's servers and how they deal with it. My guess is 'negligently'.

Do they have systems to catch or prevent pervy teachers or proctorio employees who repeatedly watch recordings of students wearing revealing clothing, having wardrobe malfuctions, engaging in sexual activity without realizing they're being recorded, etc.

How many pedofiles has proctorio caught? If it's zero, I don't think they are looking at all.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#462
post #202
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent, but I say that this is evidence of a poor system because authenticity of learning is obvious to a good professor. My best professors would always have a feeling of what ideas or strategies I would employ to solve their problems - if someone else did my project or wrote my paper it would be completely obvious. Any of these anti-cheating systems are trying to cut costs by enabling weaker teacher-student…

Higher education is already quite expensive. It would be great to have highly qualified professors spend more time directly interacting with students, but who will pay for those extra professors?

Why is higher education so expensive, anyway? It's already more expensive to go to college than it would be to just hire a set of PhD holders as private tutors for most fields

What a scam

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#463
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly. Make the exams open book and then the only thing you really need to worry about is the correct student taking the exam. If you're testing based on memorization of things in this day in age, then the course is useless.

I never understood the concept of cheating . If you don't know the answer to a question and you look it up, that's not cheating, it's research , or at least referring to reference material, which is always permitted in real life. Except for some contrived or rare circumstances someone will now point out. Even the Apollo 11 crew had support. Any professional in any industry is allowed to say: "I don't know" and "I'll…

> Except for some contrived or rare circumstances someone will now point out.

I don't know about you, but I tend to want my pilots, surgeons, and lawyers to tend towards self-competent, and I don't think those circumstances are contrived or rare. It's not to say that they can't ask for help before or during flight/operation/trial -- and in fact asking for help and crew-resource management is important for those fields -- but not all fields are like software engineering or aerospace where there may be dozens or hundreds of people that can help you in a timely fashion if you have completely no idea what you're doing. I'd prefer pilots, surgeons, and lawyers that didn't cheat their way into their jobs.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#464

How's universities are not yet part of class action lawsuit for gross abuse of privacy, students rights and segregation due to the personal characteristics?

It's endemic. I think critical mass at this point would just be a single case such as this one to catch fire in the national media. Something is missing from the equation and my guess is maybe deep pockets or familiar actors.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#465
post #459
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, good point, the UK programs I know of are notably ligher in this regard (and PhD shorter) though they do generally require a 1st class honors (honours, i guess!) degree in subject, which includes "tripos" which is roughly equivalent. So in some ways a higher bar for undergrad matched with a lower bar for grad. At least that's the theory - I don't know if in practice it holds up; most of the grad students and late…

The difference I tend to see is that the outcome of the UK viva (oral) examination is far less of a foregone conclusion, and can still be quite traditional in that students are expected to be able to have a broad and well-informed discussion about their wider field and the context of their work. The thinking is that they will (if meritous of a PhD) have a certain level of expertise, and thus be able to have a discuss…

> UK viva (oral) examination is far less of a foregone conclusion,

That matches my limited experience with UK, although I've seen north american ones without a foregone conclusion - seems really dependent on institution.

> The most common way to "fail" is to simply not submit the thesis.

I think that's true everywhere, lot's of people just don't complete. I've heard somewhere that the "ABD" (all but dissertation) rate in US is nearly 50% at 10 years, if you go across all disciplines.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#466
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, at the school this happened at, UBC, Proctorio is now effectively banned, along with other similar "algorithmic" proctoring tools, and exams are no longer allowed to use it with some exceptions. They've moved to Lockdown Browser without the recording, and to Zoom proctoring. In my opinion, neither are particularly effective measures against cheating, and I'm sure they are trivially bypassable. Th…

This is silly. Make the exams open book and then the only thing you really need to worry about is the correct student taking the exam. If you're testing based on memorization of things in this day in age, then the course is useless.

My mom is a college professor, among other things, and her exams are always open book. She has every expectation of the students to have the book in front of them when taking the test.

She's a fully online professor, though, so maybe that's the difference? Different dynamic from the traditional, in-person classes professors?

I also don't think anything but her quizzes are multiple choice? Everything else is essay format, participation (discussion posts in class forum), and a HUGE paper, so there's really nothing to cheat on, aside from plagiarism, and ... there are ways of catching that.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#467

In case you don't know who Proctorio is: (like me) Apparently it's a supervision software that students are forced to install on their private computer and (as expected) it'll do its worst to invade your privacy and flag "suspicious" things, based on which the university might punish you. "Suspicious" here means wearing glasses [3] or looking around in the room or blinking too much [4] or having eye and/or skin color…

For what it's worth, at the school this happened at, UBC, Proctorio is now effectively banned, along with other similar "algorithmic" proctoring tools, and exams are no longer allowed to use it with some exceptions. They've moved to Lockdown Browser without the recording, and to Zoom proctoring. In my opinion, neither are particularly effective measures against cheating, and I'm sure they are trivially bypassable. Th…

Harder or less student friendly for who exactly? If you'd previously be failed due to the colour of your skin, removing these tools is a major boon to student friendliness

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#468
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works if the answer can be looked up. Real life isn't always kind enough to only give problems that someone has already solved and published somewhere you can find.

That's only a helpful responds if you believe exams are testing for your ability to synthesis novelty, which seems absurd to me.

I mean synthesize, too late to edit.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you have enough RAM, I guess you could run it in a VM.

Programs like this usually attempt to detect and forbid being run in a VM.

instead, an actually workable solution would be dual booting. that only needs some disk space.

only downside is that it's a bit tricky to set up if you want to dual-boot two windows systems.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the concept of cheating . If you don't know the answer to a question and you look it up, that's not cheating, it's research , or at least referring to reference material, which is always permitted in real life. Except for some contrived or rare circumstances someone will now point out. Even the Apollo 11 crew had support. Any professional in any industry is allowed to say: "I don't know" and "I'll…

> Except for some contrived or rare circumstances someone will now point out. I don't know about you, but I tend to want my pilots, surgeons, and lawyers to tend towards self-competent, and I don't think those circumstances are contrived or rare. It's not to say that they can't ask for help before or during flight/operation/trial -- and in fact asking for help and crew-resource management is important for those field…

A similar example is when proficiency in a language is necessary for study or work in another field. A university where all coursework is done in English, for example, needs for incoming students to be able to understand lectures and texts in real time. Tests like TOEFL or IELTS are reasonably good at measuring those skills when they are conducted in a proctored testing center. If test takers can use dictionaries, voice recognition software, machine translation, etc. during the test, then those real-time skills can no longer be measured accurately. Since last year, many universities have had to adopt other methods of evaluating applicants’ language skills, such as one-on-one interviews, which are more expensive and time-consuming.
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