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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#461

Post by ericmay »

chii wrote: post #398
DebtDeflation wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When companies started announcing "permanent 100% WFH" last Spring I knew it would never last. I feel bad for the people who picked up and moved from SV or NYC and now are being told to expect to be back in their old office by June. Though it was naive to think you could move to a cabin in Wyoming with a Starlink and continue to pull an SV or NYC level TC.

> move to a cabin in Wyoming with a Starlink and continue to pull an SV or NYC level TC. so why exactly shouldn't that be possible!? It's not like the work/output decreased (for the most part). The only legitimate way for compensation to drop should be due to competition - allowing remote should also mean allowing more people to apply for a position, and thus, higher supply of potential workers. This _should_ natural…

Well, the salaries are inflated b/c cost of living (an engineer in NYC is no different than an engineer in Pittsburgh except in salary), but your point of increasing applicants means an increase in supply of applicants for that position, many of which are happy to make $80,000/year in a cabin instead of $180,000. Soooo why would the company overpay? It wouldn’t make sense.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#463

Post by kristianc »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #299
alexgmcm wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do then why don't they share it? I mean they must realise this is a pretty unpopular decision so why not share their justification. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority - "Ours not to reason why.."

> If they do then why don't they share it? Sometimes its easier not to share. In a perfect world we'd be more transparent. If its an popular decision, discussion potentially fans the flames of disagreement and ill will. E.g. People take some small point of the rationale and blow it out of proportion for why this is bad etc, why it isn't relevant to them without seeing a bigger picture etc. I think we've all seen this…

> Sometimes its easier not to share.

I don't agree with this premise. It's quite easy to share "we have data that suggests that this is the case", even if you don't divulge fully what that data is.

A decision where it's clear that some analysis has gone into it (even if you disagree with the outcome) is always going to be more accepted than a decision that seems completely arbitrary / driven by politics.

It seems that developers / ICs are asked to justify everything they do with data - making decisions from the gut is the privilege of the executive.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#464

Post by blaser-waffle »

bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

> Most people feel alone because they lack the social skills to make friends outside work, or just lack the initiative, knowledge and internal motivation to work without external pressure and supervision.

I've been remote for ~5 years now, and making friends as an adult, esp. in a new city or location, isn't easy.

But you're right, when you're remote you have to make an effort to build social bridges yourself. That's impossible, or at least greatly strained, during COVID.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#465

Post by unixhero »

intricatedetail wrote: post #380
bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

Worst thing is that my partner thinks sitting by a computer is not work and she feels entitled to interrupt any time she pleases. I didn't know that side when I worked in office. The first few months were difficult and she only came to terms with that when I started packing my things and said I will be moving out. I learned that this is probably wrong relationship but it is hard to throw away those years, but I can't…

It sounds like you dodged a bullet there. Good on you for standing up for yourself and getting rid of this in your life.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#466

Post by dimmke »

austinjp wrote: post #288
wg0 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

What about those who _do_ want a friendly workplace with some element of social interaction?

Ultimately, remote is likely going to win out. Most people in the white collar work force are older, have families and live in the burbs. The commute for a lot of them is 1+ hour each way.

But what you're saying is legitimate, and it bothers me the amount of people acting like it doesn't matter. American society already isolates people. Work is a big (maybe the biggest) avenue to develop friendships as an adult, just like school is when you're a kid. Not everybody gets married and then their life becomes about their 2 kids and any social interaction outside of that is incidental.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#467

Post by ErrantX »

kristianc wrote: post #456

What surprises me about this whole discourse is how quickly the narrative has been rewritten. Read any article from the likes of HBR from 2019 and it's apparent that much, much research shows that offices, and open offices in particular are toxic for productivity - and that the 'water cooler' collaboration effect has been vastly overstated. Sometimes in an open office you could go several hours without getting anythi…

So I wonder if the answer actually is; this is an example of correlation != causation.

Or in other words; negative drivers to productivity are not related as closely to locale as previously thought.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#468

Post by ErrantX »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #436
bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

I’ve been working remotely on and off over my career and full time for the last 2 years. I get distracted all day (have 2 kids) and I’m highly productive. I think the biggest adjustment people don’t understand is how to be more asynchronous. Working remotely requires the whole team to understand that reply’s and answers won’t be instant and jumping into calls should be the norm. Being used to impromptu calls was the…

For me it's about picking and choosing. The value of being able to do the school run, or do some DIY at lunch for 2 hours, and then do a bit of deep work in the quiet of the evening is incredibly valuable.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#469

Post by _bohm »

heymijo wrote: post #369
gfxgirl wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree completely. All metrics at my company, gamedev, show throughput is down ~66% since WFH Me, I want to go back to the office. Like hanging out with my work friends.

This past year wasn't WFH. This was WFH during a pandemic. Thinking they are the same is a mistake.

Curious what you think the main differences are.

Never did WFH until the pandemic, and will probably continue working from home for some time after things open back up. I have a hard time seeing how my day-to-day will differ significantly post-pandemic.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#470

Post by varispeed »

betterunix2 wrote: post #453
varispeed wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain why? Everyone is on Slack or Teams or even Discord and always available to talk during "office" hours.

Whiteboards were a huge part of my daily work prior to COVID and the lack of whiteboards had a negative impact on my team. Touchscreens have not really been the same for us, it is too much overhead when all you wanted was to quickly work out an idea with someone else.

We dropped whiteboards in favour of collaborative editing of documents. People write their ideas and then comment in realtime. It took some time to get used to, but not many people miss it. Some people got reMarkable if they want to draw something and share - this is a brilliant tool, but unfortunately it doesn't support encryption, so the use is a bit limited, but to draw some flows etc is great.
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