Interesting, in a way: asking to delete the tweet has likely given it far more audience than it originally had. Streisand effect, maybe?
Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
461–470 of 623 posts
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
Workers are weaker when scabs undermine their collective bargaining power.
Yes, when someone doesn't join your cause, you are generally going to be weaker. That's kinda how it works. Doesn't make it a tragedy of the commons though.
I think you're missing part of the story.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
The horrors of... a 35 hour workweek, 5 weeks paid vacation, 16 weeks paid maternity leave, universal healthcare, and no at-will employment?
You forget, with a union, the world's richest man might get richer every day at a slightly slower rate than he currently gets richer. That's the real horror!
What riches, exactly? Why the hate?
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
The horrors of... a 35 hour workweek, 5 weeks paid vacation, 16 weeks paid maternity leave, universal healthcare, and no at-will employment?
Ah, classic selection bias blinders on. Sure, great benefits for those who have jobs. What about for the people who can't get employed due to the conditions on labor? The young, poor, already jobless? Not so much concern for them, you got yours.
This could be describing any country on the planet.
Shantytowns have been growing across the US for almost 30 years.
Unions are just formalized reality, like fiscal economics, politics, etc
IMO, while we may not live to see it, I’m pretty sure out last 100-150 years of economic thought is, big picture style, on its way out.
It may take decades but once everyone is a gig worker, the political argument for universal healthcare will be undeniable.
IMO that’s more in-line with someone like Adam Smith, whose only condition for a market was free movement of workers between a market of opportunity.
This has somehow been mutated into a market of goods and services, probably out of laziness.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#465Interesting, in a way: asking to delete the tweet has likely given it far more audience than it originally had. Streisand effect, maybe?
Isn’t that a good thing? It’s letting both Tesla employees and others know that the threats were empty, unenforceable and illegal.
It’s not like the original tweet wasn’t widely discussed.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
The biggest confusion I have is everybody seems to approach Amazon and Tesla unionization as "hopefully it happens so workers will get better wages!" I could be wrong but... I'm pretty sure Amazon and Tesla pay great relative to their space. Relatively demanding, sure. I get it. We've all seen the article where some Amazon worker urinated in a bottle because "the job is just so ruthless!". They employ hundreds of tho…
> The biggest confusion I have is everybody seems to approach Amazon and Tesla unionization as "hopefully it happens so workers will get better wages!" That might be the thing you're wrong about. It sounds like most of the Amazon unionization efforts _aren't_ necessarily about better pay. It seems like more of the focus is about better, more humane working conditions. If Amazon pays its workers slightly above average…
>> they treat those same workers like absolute shit with inhumane working conditions
I think this debate is going to be like all the others on the topic, if you have never done manual labor, warehouse work, or factory work you are going to talk about the "inhumane working conditions", and if you have done that type of work you consider an Amazon warehouse job to be a great job for an unskilled laborer.
I did 10 years in that world, the factory workers I worked with would have considered an Amazon warehouse job to be a dream job.
I feel dirty now for having defended Amazon, but the truth is the truth.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#467Working in France completely changed my view of unions. I sure hope the horrors I saw won’t happen to Tesla.
The horrors of... a 35 hour workweek, 5 weeks paid vacation, 16 weeks paid maternity leave, universal healthcare, and no at-will employment?
or the deadwood that gets protected because they belong to an union. Or unions being against remote work because that'd reduce employee control. Or union leadership just using their membership to laze around. Or union opposing projects they don't like. Or union harassing (including physically) managers. And to say nothing of railway union who apparently have a Mission to gridlock the country every few years (usually around the time someone in the government check the deficits of the railways)
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're talking about whether the most visible champion of Dogecoin, whose formal title at his company is Techking, and who added a fart-on-demand feature to his products, and saying that one of his tweets regarding a currently non-existent party, a Tesla union organization, is unprofessional. Labels like "unprofessional" are repugnant to some people, because they have been, and continue to be, used to justify arbitra…
> I doubt this is a good standard to go for when trying to engage Elon I agree, it's a much better to cut through the BS and go straight for the time that Musk and Tesla tried to have a former employee murdered by the police by accusing them of being a mass shooter[1] all because Musk thought the employee was a whistleblower for public safety. I think that incident illustrates Musk's attitude towards Tesla employees…
That employee who was forced to pay Tesla 400k in damages by the courts?
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you elaborate? Because for me, working in scandinavia, unions looked quite useful and reasonable.
I had this naive image in mind that unions are labor activists mobilizing against exploitative corporate practices. What I witnessed opened my eyes to the realities on ground, that seemed like almost opposite. As usual, life is more complicated! * The objective of trade unions is not to protect workers and improve their conditions (at least directly). It’s to protect themselves. * In every organization, there exists…
So let me get this straight. You are opposed to workers organizing, because in doing so the unions might show some of the same problems that are already an issue in organizations and the ownership which is naturally always organized.
Seem like a strawman, worker conditions are light years ahead where workers are organized.
You sound like someone arguing against companies or capitalism because tax evasion exists saying “maybe there’s a case for textbook capitalism but in reality it doesn’t work” when we have literal proof that not capitalism and unions work. Nothing is perfect and ofcause unions can be better and companies can as well. But the net effect of unions is positive, and they form naturally in every place where you don’t allow anti-union policies and anti union worker discrimination.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#470Interesting, in a way: asking to delete the tweet has likely given it far more audience than it originally had. Streisand effect, maybe?
Does the First Amendment amount to a fart in a thunderstorm any longer?
If anyone getting paid out of taxpayer funds doesn't grok the Bill of Rights, then their employment is what needs deleting.